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Does anyone know if this would affect the price of Li-on batteries? I'm curious to know if it would make Tesla's cars cheaper.

mchannon 14y ago
What few people realize about lithium batteries is it's not the lithium that's scarce and expensive, but the alloying elements that go in to make the electrode- most EV batteries use more Cobalt by weight than Lithium, and Cobalt is more expensive per pound. Lithium's one of the lightest metals, so a little bit goes a long way.
- frakkingcylons 14y ago
  Good to know, thank you.
- jrabone 14y ago
  IIRC cobalt is not only scarce, it's also mostly mainly produced in the Congo and Zambia, and anywhere referred to as the "Democratic Republic of..." is probably not as politically stable as one might hope.
umsm 14y ago
This made me curious too... What is the cost breakdown of a Tesla car? What part(s) do we need to improve to lower the price to that of a regular luxury car?
- gngeal 14y ago
  What exactly is a "regular luxury car"? It sounds like an interesting designation for any article. If it's regular, is it still a luxury?
  - joevandyk 14y ago
    BMW, Lexus, etc.
    - knowaveragejoe 14y ago
      Equivalent models of which are priced about the same as the Model S variants.
  - umsm 14y ago
    I would consider a mid-range lexus as a regular luxury car. There are extremes (anything over $120k: Bentley, Maybach, etc.) but those are out of the reach of the masses. My point is this: If a Tesla would be a petrol-powered vehicle, how much would it cost? Now find out WHY/WHERE there's a difference and look at that.
    - DanBC 14y ago
      > WHY Isn't it as simple as "because they can"? A Patek Phillipe watch is lovely, but probably doesn't have $30,000 worth of materials and labour involved. The rest is just pricing for a luxury good.
      - umsm 14y ago
        You're paying for the brand, that's true, but not $25k of that is the brand. You have to consider the materials, manufacturing process of individual pieces, labor, marketing expenses, service, etc. Generally: Companies try to give you the best for the money.
  - r00fus 14y ago
    I presume umsm meant ICE or non-electric luxury car. ie, ones that don't require any advanced battery tech.

mchannon 14y ago

What few people realize about lithium batteries is it's not the lithium that's scarce and expensive, but the alloying elements that go in to make the electrode- most EV batteries use more Cobalt by weight than Lithium, and Cobalt is more expensive per pound. Lithium's one of the lightest metals, so a little bit goes a long way.

frakkingcylons 14y ago
Good to know, thank you.
jrabone 14y ago
IIRC cobalt is not only scarce, it's also mostly mainly produced in the Congo and Zambia, and anywhere referred to as the "Democratic Republic of..." is probably not as politically stable as one might hope.

umsm 14y ago

This made me curious too... What is the cost breakdown of a Tesla car? What part(s) do we need to improve to lower the price to that of a regular luxury car?

gngeal 14y ago
What exactly is a "regular luxury car"? It sounds like an interesting designation for any article. If it's regular, is it still a luxury?
- joevandyk 14y ago
  BMW, Lexus, etc.
  - knowaveragejoe 14y ago
    Equivalent models of which are priced about the same as the Model S variants.
- umsm 14y ago
  I would consider a mid-range lexus as a regular luxury car. There are extremes (anything over $120k: Bentley, Maybach, etc.) but those are out of the reach of the masses. My point is this: If a Tesla would be a petrol-powered vehicle, how much would it cost? Now find out WHY/WHERE there's a difference and look at that.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    > WHY Isn't it as simple as "because they can"? A Patek Phillipe watch is lovely, but probably doesn't have $30,000 worth of materials and labour involved. The rest is just pricing for a luxury good.
    - umsm 14y ago
      You're paying for the brand, that's true, but not $25k of that is the brand. You have to consider the materials, manufacturing process of individual pieces, labor, marketing expenses, service, etc. Generally: Companies try to give you the best for the money.
- r00fus 14y ago
  I presume umsm meant ICE or non-electric luxury car. ie, ones that don't require any advanced battery tech.