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I think this is a complex and naunced issue. I have a number of thoughts on your arguments. Society doesn't set up rules and systems, they seem to emerge as a

I think this is a complex and naunced issue. I have a number of thoughts on your arguments. Society doesn't set up rules and systems, they seem to emerge as a consequence of beneficial cooperative behavior towards a 'goal'. When it's no longer beneficial to cooperate towards a goal, over say other strategies like cheating, the rules are overlooked, passed, or changed as quickly as they emerged. The prevalence of War as a way to 'rebalance' resources comes to mind immediately, but so too does the reality that only 2% of people pay use taxes. To your point about parasitism. Human societies are always in a state of change with respect to sociological and technological concerns, and the success of a society in achieving its 'goals' seems largely dependent on how well it adapts to this change. The parasitism you've described seems to be more a reality of economics than society in general, and though your point seems valid on its face, You wouldn't say that the success companies like Uber, which are cheating parasites by your definition, is really a net negative for the society. to your point about morality. I believe morality is really orthogonal to this issue and should be considered from different viewpoints in different contexts because humans can hold contradictory points of view and still remain 'functioning'. History holds many examples of individuals who challenge what is 'moral' in a society through cheating, and they are sometimes lauded, sometimes not. I think of the narrative surrounding Rosa Parks on one side ( in support of cheating ) and the story of Cincinnatus ( in support of not cheating ) when considering morality in the context of the cooperation cheating dichotomy. and you're right, this is a very interesting topic, definitely outside the scope of this small classroom experiment.

icegreentea 13y ago
I think we're really agreeing on your first point, and really just have a difference in choice of language. I was kind of sloppy, and used society as kind of a shorthand for the type of emergence you describe. In fact, I would go as far to say that a given society is the very type of emergent phenomena that you describe, and exists as a kind of a high (perhaps highest?) level system that we tend to exist and work within. Regarding the second point, I really tried to cover this angle with my little bit about 'goodness' of a system, and also vastly over simplified things. Obviously different people in a system are effected by it to different extents, and can play vastly different roles. Many of the statements I was making were with regard to systems with all members are on roughly the same footing. Imagine an honour system for paying for soda, an agreement that everyone on a street clears their own segment of sidewalk of snow, that type of thing. My assumption was that systems and agreements where everyone is more or less on the same footing are generally beneficial to everyone. Obviously, the situation with regards to taxis and Uber is different. The majority of people are just consumers. They don't really care as long as they are provided the same benefit (reasonably priced, safe, quick, point to point transport). The taxi companies on the other hand are in a completely different position, and in fact, from their position, Uber is definitely a cheating parasite, and a net negative for the taxi companies. I think this falls under my lazy little blurb regarding 'breaking bad systems'.

icegreentea 13y ago

I think we're really agreeing on your first point, and really just have a difference in choice of language. I was kind of sloppy, and used society as kind of a shorthand for the type of emergence you describe. In fact, I would go as far to say that a given society is the very type of emergent phenomena that you describe, and exists as a kind of a high (perhaps highest?) level system that we tend to exist and work within. Regarding the second point, I really tried to cover this angle with my little bit about 'goodness' of a system, and also vastly over simplified things. Obviously different people in a system are effected by it to different extents, and can play vastly different roles. Many of the statements I was making were with regard to systems with all members are on roughly the same footing. Imagine an honour system for paying for soda, an agreement that everyone on a street clears their own segment of sidewalk of snow, that type of thing. My assumption was that systems and agreements where everyone is more or less on the same footing are generally beneficial to everyone. Obviously, the situation with regards to taxis and Uber is different. The majority of people are just consumers. They don't really care as long as they are provided the same benefit (reasonably priced, safe, quick, point to point transport). The taxi companies on the other hand are in a completely different position, and in fact, from their position, Uber is definitely a cheating parasite, and a net negative for the taxi companies. I think this falls under my lazy little blurb regarding 'breaking bad systems'.