4 ms·

I am unimpressed by 60 watt equivalent bulbs. A 60 watt equivalent is about enough to be a desk lamp, if I need to provide light for even a small room it is a u

by com2kid 14y ago

I am unimpressed by 60 watt equivalent bulbs. A 60 watt equivalent is about enough to be a desk lamp, if I need to provide light for even a small room it is a useless amount unless I get a large number of bulbs together. Unfortunately 60 watt equivalent has become some sort of benchmark for new light bulb technology. If you really want to replace lighting in some meaningful way, start quoting 100 watt equivalent numbers to me.

hnriot 14y ago
Nonsense! You're eyes adjust to very low light levels, far below what a 60W bulb outputs in lumens.
- EliRivers 14y ago
  Good enough to see, not good enough for fine work. 60W was enough for me a decade ago. Now for fine work I need 100W. I can still see with 60W, but what was enough for fine work a decade ago is not enough now. I understand this will get worse as I get older. I don't have any particular visual conditions; I'm just aging.
  - dsfasfasf 14y ago
    Another simple explanation, your sight is not as good as it used to be. 10 years is a long time. Just saying.
    - com2kid 14y ago
      A lighting solution that is useful for ages 1-30 leaves out a huge segment of the population! Indeed I have no trouble with low light (yet!), but just because I can read a book with a single 60W bulb in a living room doesn't mean I want to.
    - EliRivers 14y ago
      That's kind of my whole point. In fact, not "kind of". That is my point.
      - qu4z-2 14y ago
        Good response.
ajross 14y ago
If only someone made a "fixture" for lighting with multiple bulb sockets in a convenient, attractive mounting that could be attached to the ceiling of a room. The 60W incandescent light bulb has been the "standard lightbulb" since before most of us were born. Honestly I don't understand this criticism at all. Certainly LED lighting is available in many form factors other than a 60W bulb...
- com2kid 14y ago
  > If only someone made a "fixture" for lighting with multiple bulb sockets in a convenient, attractive mounting that could be attached to the ceiling of a room. My condo's living room doesn't have a ceiling mounted light fixture, or a place to install one at. I'm sure the job could be done, but it'd be a major pain. > The 60W incandescent light bulb has been the "standard lightbulb" since before most of us were born. Honestly I don't understand this criticism at all. Certainly LED lighting is available in many form factors other than a 60W bulb... Thus I'm stuck using a stupid stand lamp, which right now is only 1 bulb. (My previous 3 bulb stand started smoking when I put in a 150W equivalent CFL, heh) Sure 60W has been standard, but for what purpose? Just one of them is useless, and heck 3 of them isn't much better. 3 75s is actually useful, and a couple of 100s is preferred.
  - hosh 14y ago
    You might want to start thinking in terms of lumens and color temperature. So 800 lumens at 2700K. Philips make ones at higher lumens and lower (warmer) color temperatures. I have one for my one and only floor lamp and it fills up the room and still enough for reading. Granted, I tend to prefer darker rooms anyways and I'm quite happy to have candle light in the evenings (about 100 - 200 lumens).
  - ajross 14y ago
    Without getting into the minutiae of lumens and efficiency metrics for different lighting technologies... It never occurred to you just to buy a second lamp?
    - 14y ago
benjamincburns 14y ago
This is kind of an obsolete way of thinking. Most people think of "X-watt equivalent" as the area illumination caused by an X-watt omnidirectional A19 incandescent. Industry expresses equivalency in terms of lumens, or total light output, but not total illumination of a specified area. This is only apples-to-apples for fully omnidirectional bulbs. LED lighting is costly and complex enough that directional LED bulbs are more or less at cost parity with omnidirectional LED bulbs. In fact, true omnis are often more expensive just because LEDs are inherently directional. This is the first time in the history of lighting where omni wasn't significantly less expensive than directional. Truth is, there are very few scenarios where a high-output omnidirectional lamp actually makes sense. We're used to omnis because they were much cheaper to purchase than their more efficient, directional brethren and because it's convenient to just slap a bright bulb in a socket and say "eh - good enough." Since most people buy LED bulbs for the gains in efficiency, doesn't it make more sense to buy the lower-power directional lamps which are more fit for their application? How many fixtures do you have in your home that require a true omni-directional lamp? How many of those fixtures need a high-output omni? Now, how many fixtures do you have that could make good use of a directional bulb (either narrow or wide-beam)? tl;dr: Talking about incandescent watt equivalency only benefits marketing people and confuses consumers - take a look at directional lamps and you'll be less disappointed.
- com2kid 14y ago
  > LED lighting is costly and complex enough that directional LED bulbs are more or less at cost parity with omnidirectional LED bulbs. In fact, true omnis are often more expensive just because LEDs are inherently directional. This is the first time in the history of lighting where omni wasn't significantly less expensive than directional. There was that awesome Kickstarter awhile back for a nice omnidirectional LED bulb, I'm looking forward to its delivery! > Truth is, there are very few scenarios where a high-output omnidirectional lamp actually makes sense. We're used to omnis because they were much cheaper to purchase than their more efficient, directional brethren and because it's convenient to just slap a bright bulb in a socket and say "eh - good enough." With this I disagree. Open spaces such as a living room are perfect for omnidirectional lighting. Indeed when I have lived in places with track lighting the annoying part was always trying to spread the light out enough to make it seem omnidirectional without having a bunch of bright hot spots around the room. When I am cooking or something, sure, light up my working surfaces, but for general ambiance when I am at home I want the entire bloody room I am in lit up! Now just do that while saving power. :) Indeed, if you look at how recessed lighting is installed (and I'll be the first to point out that recessed lighting is generally stupid), there are a ton of cans installed in a grid throughout the ceiling to provide what is essentially uniform brightness in a room.
jseliger 14y ago
If you really want to replace lighting in some meaningful way, start quoting 100 watt equivalent numbers to me. Here you go: http://store.earthled.com/products/switch-switch100-led-light-bulb http://store.earthled.com/products/switch-switch100-led-ligh... , though note that the upfront cost is high. Scroll down to see the performance specs.
lutorm 14y ago
Even if I want more light, one single high-output bulb is a bad way to do it. Spreading the light out over more sources gives a much more even, ambient-like illumination.
dClauzel 14y ago
Absolutely. The real challenge is to propose an affordable LED bulb that can provide at least 1300 lumens.
rdl 14y ago
What I'd really prefer is using LEDs to do novel kinds of lighting fixtures, not just replace edison-screw-base incandescents. I want a glowing uniform ceiling square, wall square, undercounter wide strip, etc.
- dfc 14y ago
  Under cabinet?
  - rdl 14y ago
    Kitchen counter/workspace lights mounted under cabinets above. Pretty common; IKEA sells sticky lights to mount that way now.
    - dfc 14y ago
      You wrote under counter but what I was pretty confident that you meant under cabinet. My two big complaints with the current offerings are that they are either too thick so they end up being a little proud of the cabinet face or they are the thin strips that only project the light in a stripe across the counter.
      - rdl 14y ago
        The thing I really want in my next kitchen is an "air wall" and well designed fume food/fire hood, with both big lights and task/spot lights. Right now I have one of the stupid "recirculate the output after running through a tiny filter" nominal hoods over the stove, which is really incompatible with high-heat cast iron or wok cooking. And would terrify me if there were a fire (I have a Halon 1211 and an ABC dry chemical between the stove and the exit, along with a costco bag of baking soda, and plenty of pan lids, but still)

by com2kid 14y ago

hnriot 14y ago

Nonsense! You're eyes adjust to very low light levels, far below what a 60W bulb outputs in lumens.

EliRivers 14y ago
Good enough to see, not good enough for fine work. 60W was enough for me a decade ago. Now for fine work I need 100W. I can still see with 60W, but what was enough for fine work a decade ago is not enough now. I understand this will get worse as I get older. I don't have any particular visual conditions; I'm just aging.
- dsfasfasf 14y ago
  Another simple explanation, your sight is not as good as it used to be. 10 years is a long time. Just saying.
  - com2kid 14y ago
    A lighting solution that is useful for ages 1-30 leaves out a huge segment of the population! Indeed I have no trouble with low light (yet!), but just because I can read a book with a single 60W bulb in a living room doesn't mean I want to.
  - EliRivers 14y ago
    That's kind of my whole point. In fact, not "kind of". That is my point.
    - qu4z-2 14y ago
      Good response.

ajross 14y ago

If only someone made a "fixture" for lighting with multiple bulb sockets in a convenient, attractive mounting that could be attached to the ceiling of a room. The 60W incandescent light bulb has been the "standard lightbulb" since before most of us were born. Honestly I don't understand this criticism at all. Certainly LED lighting is available in many form factors other than a 60W bulb...

com2kid 14y ago
> If only someone made a "fixture" for lighting with multiple bulb sockets in a convenient, attractive mounting that could be attached to the ceiling of a room. My condo's living room doesn't have a ceiling mounted light fixture, or a place to install one at. I'm sure the job could be done, but it'd be a major pain. > The 60W incandescent light bulb has been the "standard lightbulb" since before most of us were born. Honestly I don't understand this criticism at all. Certainly LED lighting is available in many form factors other than a 60W bulb... Thus I'm stuck using a stupid stand lamp, which right now is only 1 bulb. (My previous 3 bulb stand started smoking when I put in a 150W equivalent CFL, heh) Sure 60W has been standard, but for what purpose? Just one of them is useless, and heck 3 of them isn't much better. 3 75s is actually useful, and a couple of 100s is preferred.
- hosh 14y ago
  You might want to start thinking in terms of lumens and color temperature. So 800 lumens at 2700K. Philips make ones at higher lumens and lower (warmer) color temperatures. I have one for my one and only floor lamp and it fills up the room and still enough for reading. Granted, I tend to prefer darker rooms anyways and I'm quite happy to have candle light in the evenings (about 100 - 200 lumens).
- ajross 14y ago
  Without getting into the minutiae of lumens and efficiency metrics for different lighting technologies... It never occurred to you just to buy a second lamp?
  - 14y ago

benjamincburns 14y ago

This is kind of an obsolete way of thinking. Most people think of "X-watt equivalent" as the area illumination caused by an X-watt omnidirectional A19 incandescent. Industry expresses equivalency in terms of lumens, or total light output, but not total illumination of a specified area. This is only apples-to-apples for fully omnidirectional bulbs. LED lighting is costly and complex enough that directional LED bulbs are more or less at cost parity with omnidirectional LED bulbs. In fact, true omnis are often more expensive just because LEDs are inherently directional. This is the first time in the history of lighting where omni wasn't significantly less expensive than directional. Truth is, there are very few scenarios where a high-output omnidirectional lamp actually makes sense. We're used to omnis because they were much cheaper to purchase than their more efficient, directional brethren and because it's convenient to just slap a bright bulb in a socket and say "eh - good enough." Since most people buy LED bulbs for the gains in efficiency, doesn't it make more sense to buy the lower-power directional lamps which are more fit for their application? How many fixtures do you have in your home that require a true omni-directional lamp? How many of those fixtures need a high-output omni? Now, how many fixtures do you have that could make good use of a directional bulb (either narrow or wide-beam)? tl;dr: Talking about incandescent watt equivalency only benefits marketing people and confuses consumers - take a look at directional lamps and you'll be less disappointed.

com2kid 14y ago
> LED lighting is costly and complex enough that directional LED bulbs are more or less at cost parity with omnidirectional LED bulbs. In fact, true omnis are often more expensive just because LEDs are inherently directional. This is the first time in the history of lighting where omni wasn't significantly less expensive than directional. There was that awesome Kickstarter awhile back for a nice omnidirectional LED bulb, I'm looking forward to its delivery! > Truth is, there are very few scenarios where a high-output omnidirectional lamp actually makes sense. We're used to omnis because they were much cheaper to purchase than their more efficient, directional brethren and because it's convenient to just slap a bright bulb in a socket and say "eh - good enough." With this I disagree. Open spaces such as a living room are perfect for omnidirectional lighting. Indeed when I have lived in places with track lighting the annoying part was always trying to spread the light out enough to make it seem omnidirectional without having a bunch of bright hot spots around the room. When I am cooking or something, sure, light up my working surfaces, but for general ambiance when I am at home I want the entire bloody room I am in lit up! Now just do that while saving power. :) Indeed, if you look at how recessed lighting is installed (and I'll be the first to point out that recessed lighting is generally stupid), there are a ton of cans installed in a grid throughout the ceiling to provide what is essentially uniform brightness in a room.

jseliger 14y ago

If you really want to replace lighting in some meaningful way, start quoting 100 watt equivalent numbers to me. Here you go: http://store.earthled.com/products/switch-switch100-led-light-bulb http://store.earthled.com/products/switch-switch100-led-ligh... , though note that the upfront cost is high. Scroll down to see the performance specs.

lutorm 14y ago

Even if I want more light, one single high-output bulb is a bad way to do it. Spreading the light out over more sources gives a much more even, ambient-like illumination.

dClauzel 14y ago

Absolutely. The real challenge is to propose an affordable LED bulb that can provide at least 1300 lumens.

rdl 14y ago

What I'd really prefer is using LEDs to do novel kinds of lighting fixtures, not just replace edison-screw-base incandescents. I want a glowing uniform ceiling square, wall square, undercounter wide strip, etc.

dfc 14y ago
Under cabinet?
- rdl 14y ago
  Kitchen counter/workspace lights mounted under cabinets above. Pretty common; IKEA sells sticky lights to mount that way now.
  - dfc 14y ago
    You wrote under counter but what I was pretty confident that you meant under cabinet. My two big complaints with the current offerings are that they are either too thick so they end up being a little proud of the cabinet face or they are the thin strips that only project the light in a stripe across the counter.
    - rdl 14y ago
      The thing I really want in my next kitchen is an "air wall" and well designed fume food/fire hood, with both big lights and task/spot lights. Right now I have one of the stupid "recirculate the output after running through a tiny filter" nominal hoods over the stove, which is really incompatible with high-heat cast iron or wok cooking. And would terrify me if there were a fire (I have a Halon 1211 and an ABC dry chemical between the stove and the exit, along with a costco bag of baking soda, and plenty of pan lids, but still)