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No, I am still correct. That some wealthy foreign students went to Cornell is no doubt recent and not at all what I am talking about. If you will read what I
by graycat 14y ago
No, I am still correct. That some wealthy foreign
students went to Cornell is no doubt recent and not
at all what I am talking about.
If you will read what I wrote, then you will see that
there were students from India in a US Midwestern
university. They were not wealthy. And at the time
there's no way they could have been paying their way.
Net, in US universities, even in undergraduate
programs, a major fraction of STEM students were
from foreign countries, especially India and Taiwan.
In simple terms, they were on scholarships of various
kinds.
Further, again, yet again, this time just for you,
over again, no student in a well known college or
university pays the full cost. Rarely do they pay
more than 1/3rd. E.g., as I have already posted
in this thread, Mike Bloomberg gave $100 million to
Johns Hopkins, and a founder QUALCOMM recently
gave $133 million to the Cornell technical university
being built on Roosevelt Island, and this story is
standard all across US colleges and universities.
At a research university, expect that a professor
will get about $500,000 a year from NSF, NIH, etc.
About 60%, 300,000, will go to the university as
'overhead'. The remaining $200,000 will cover
the professor's salary, travel, equipment,
supplies, etc. And a little will go for
graduate students. So, again it's Joe and Mary
paying for the university.
Net, students don't pay the full cost. Instead the
full cost is paid by gifts and taxes, taxes, e.g.,
for Joe and Mary who are still having a tough time
paying for their own children to go to college. Some
of the taxes go quite directly to the institutions, e.g.,
all the state schools in NY, MD, CA, the Big Ten, etc. A lot more
money goes from tax payers to the universities via
NSF and NIH.
You mentioned DARPA: There were old rules
that the US DoD could not fund work at universities.
Long much DARPA (ARPA) work was so 'confidential' that
it could not be done in universities. But clearly, e.g.,
with some of the DARPA Challenge projects, e.g., at CMU
and Stanford, some DARPA funding is making its way into
universities. Still I doubt that a major fraction of
DARPA money goes to universities.
Yes, the situation of the NSF flooding the US
with foreign STEM students is more extreme
in graduate programs. But the NSF money that
goes to students is not really because the
research projects need the student's labor!
No, the money is because the NSF demands that
students be supported because the NSF wants
to flood the US labor markets with STEM
students with graduate degrees. Maybe you
believe that you worked hard for your
research assistantship, but, really, the NSF,
NIH, etc. mostly just want you to add to the
US STEM worker pool to keep down costs to
US industry and the US 'military-industrial'
complex.
- mturmon 14y agoYou're caught up in your story: "Rarely do they pay more than 1/3rd. E.g., as I have already posted in this thread, Mike Bloomberg gave $100 million to Johns Hopkins, and a founder QUALCOMM recently gave $133 million to the Cornell technical university [...] So, again it's Joe and Mary paying for the university." Wait, is it Joe and Mary footing the bill? Or Mike Bloomberg and Irwin Jacobs (the Qualcomm founder you mention)? And I contend that when the NSF, NIH, or other government agencies give contracts to universities that are in part executed by grad students, that's labor bought and paid for. Not a handout (in part) to foreigners.
- graycat 14y ago"You're caught up in your story:" I just know what the heck I'm talking about. As I wrote in this thread over and over, it's US citizens, via gifts or taxes, e.g., taxes from Joe and Mary, that is paying for most of any education in a well known US college or university. So, in particular, there's no way a foreigner is paying his/her way; the foreigner is getting an education mostly paid for by US citizens. For the graduate student who gets a stipend for work grading papers or working in a lab for a prof, that's mostly just make work. I've done it as a grad student, and I've hired it as a prof. I will say that when I was teaching calculus at a Big Ten school as a grad student I was earning my keep. The NSF wrote into its grant contracts that students must be supported as a way to get more STEM grad students, not because the NSF wanted those students to contribute to 'research' but because the NSF economists did a calculation to see how to increase STEM graduate degree labor in the US labor market. So, sure stockholders of United Technologies, GE, Microsoft, Cisco, Intel, etc. like the idea of the NSF generating more STEM Master's degrees, but Joe and Mary can see that their tax money is not getting their children through college but is getting foreign students through grad school to compete with their children should they manage to get through grad school. So Joe and Mary have a right to feel ripped off. "Not a handout (in part) to foreigners." No, that basically is what is going on, and because the NSF insists so, and so insists because the NSF wants, as I explained, to participate in 'US national manpower management', i.e., flood the US with cheap labor, in STEM fields and not just research. Mostly it is just not in the economic interest of any country to be giving away high end education to foreigners.