3 ms·

It's not "racist". It's just that the US citizens quickly saw that they didn't 'fit in'. So, they became afraid, rightly so, that somehow it was a game that p

by graycat 14y ago

It's not "racist". It's just that the US citizens quickly saw that they didn't 'fit in'. So, they became afraid, rightly so, that somehow it was a game that promised not to be good for US citizens. And that fear was correct. The US citizens just saw that they didn't fit in and turned, which is just what they should have done. There are lots of situations where a person might not fit in, and racism need have nothing to do with it. Or, where were all the other US citizens that one would expect would be the TA and the students? Were they all racists? Or did they just see or sense something wrong? There was something wrong, very wrong: The labor supply was being manipulated in DC. It was a rigged game and not what it looked like superficially. When see such a situation, don't ignore the obvious and wait 20 years to discover the details of how DC rigged the game and, instead, just sense that something's wrong and leave. I saw situations where the division was really clear: Essentially all the worker bees were from India or Asia, and essentially all the managers were US citizens, white of Western European descent. In that situation, got to be from Asia or India to apply for a slot even as a worker bee -- US citizens of Western European descent need not apply. Period. Look, set aside your PC sensitivities for a second and look at some simple reality: A big theme in the US from Alexis de Tocqueville on is for the US to create an identifiable, exploited underclass. That's what's going on here. Given that such an exploited underclass has been created, then other people don't 'fit in' and will not be welcome, especially by the higher ups. Again, it's not racism, especially on the part of the guy who sees that he doesn't fit in, turns, and walks; instead, it's reality.

tomkarlo 14y ago
How could someone "see" the citizenships of the non-white students? And that's not racist?
- graycat 14y ago
  Easy: The culture of a country, as far as I can tell, any country, takes a lot of time, years, mostly decades, and effort to learn. In any country, someone who recently arrived, to natives, obviously has not been there very long. It's easy enough in the US to spot people recently from Canada, Mexico, England, France, Italy, Germany, and Australia; spotting people recently from India and Taiwan is much easier. So, when the people clearly have not been in the US long enough to become US citizens, then that is easy to tell. Does that answer your question?
  - tomkarlo 14y ago
    Yes, but not in the way you think it does. It mostly tells me you haven't been around a wide variety of people. Live in any major US city and you'll meet thousands of citizens with heavy accents and atypical fashion sense (ever been to Brooklyn, or most of LA)? And there are lots of non-citizens that have lived in the US for years and blend in perfectly - many of the folks in my office are not US citizens, but as a natural-born American I'd be hard pressed to say which just by looking at them. If you could do better than 50% success - random guessing - in looking at my workplace or college class, I'd be surprised.
    - graycat 14y ago
      Interesting, but I'm still correct: Again, if a person A who has been in the US for a long time and has gotten good with US 'culture' sees an adult B who has not been in the US long enough to qualify for US citizenship, then person A will detect person B as an immigrant and non-US citizen easily. Your point is that this detection can also be made by some non-US citizens who have been in the US for a long time. True but does not conflict with what I wrote. You are straining to find something wrong with what I wrote. Sorry, I wrote nothing wrong.
      - tomkarlo 14y ago
        I don't need to strain: what you're saying - that you can look a bunch of people, and based on their faces and clothing, decide they're not American - is racist. In fact, it's pretty close to the canonical example of racist. What I'm trying to explain is that there are lots of people who are US citizens that your test would fail with. They're native-born, but they don't happen to be white and/or they don't happen to dress like you. Just because someone isn't white and/or completely culturally assimilated doesn't mean they're less American or even second or third generation - we've been making that mistake for a few hundred years, be it with the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc... I say that as someone who knows lots of third or later generation Americans who still get asked "what country they're from" by folks making the same mistake.
        14y ago

by graycat 14y ago

tomkarlo 14y ago

How could someone "see" the citizenships of the non-white students? And that's not racist?

graycat 14y ago
Easy: The culture of a country, as far as I can tell, any country, takes a lot of time, years, mostly decades, and effort to learn. In any country, someone who recently arrived, to natives, obviously has not been there very long. It's easy enough in the US to spot people recently from Canada, Mexico, England, France, Italy, Germany, and Australia; spotting people recently from India and Taiwan is much easier. So, when the people clearly have not been in the US long enough to become US citizens, then that is easy to tell. Does that answer your question?
- tomkarlo 14y ago
  Yes, but not in the way you think it does. It mostly tells me you haven't been around a wide variety of people. Live in any major US city and you'll meet thousands of citizens with heavy accents and atypical fashion sense (ever been to Brooklyn, or most of LA)? And there are lots of non-citizens that have lived in the US for years and blend in perfectly - many of the folks in my office are not US citizens, but as a natural-born American I'd be hard pressed to say which just by looking at them. If you could do better than 50% success - random guessing - in looking at my workplace or college class, I'd be surprised.
  - graycat 14y ago
    Interesting, but I'm still correct: Again, if a person A who has been in the US for a long time and has gotten good with US 'culture' sees an adult B who has not been in the US long enough to qualify for US citizenship, then person A will detect person B as an immigrant and non-US citizen easily. Your point is that this detection can also be made by some non-US citizens who have been in the US for a long time. True but does not conflict with what I wrote. You are straining to find something wrong with what I wrote. Sorry, I wrote nothing wrong.
    - tomkarlo 14y ago
      I don't need to strain: what you're saying - that you can look a bunch of people, and based on their faces and clothing, decide they're not American - is racist. In fact, it's pretty close to the canonical example of racist. What I'm trying to explain is that there are lots of people who are US citizens that your test would fail with. They're native-born, but they don't happen to be white and/or they don't happen to dress like you. Just because someone isn't white and/or completely culturally assimilated doesn't mean they're less American or even second or third generation - we've been making that mistake for a few hundred years, be it with the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc... I say that as someone who knows lots of third or later generation Americans who still get asked "what country they're from" by folks making the same mistake.
      - 14y ago