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The problem from the stigma point of view is that, even if our better judgement is saying "stand up for your privacy rights, even if you have nothing to hide",
by corin_ 14y ago
The problem from the stigma point of view is that, even if our better judgement is saying "stand up for your privacy rights, even if you have nothing to hide", our (or at least my) brain is also saying "if he was innocent he wouldn't have a problem un-encrypting the drive(s) for them".
That's in my head, despite the fact that I am well aware that he could be taking a moral stand, or he could have stuff on those drives which he doesn't want to be seen for reasons completely unrelated to child pornography (maybe photos of his mistress which his wife doesn't know about, maybe profit spreadsheets from his drug-dealing... etc.)
So if he is innocent, I imagine the stigma will be there regardless, assuming people hear about the case at least.
- rhizome 14y agoThe stigma comes from an attitude that the judicial system's responsibility is to produce convictions, so it appears that defendants who are not convicted are merely certainly-guilty people against whom the prosecution didn't have the tools necessary to convict. Down this path lies lowered standards for due process and evidence and a higher incidence of false positives.
- anigbrowl 14y agothe judicial system's responsibility is to produce convictions No, that's the responsibility of prosecutors. Trial courts are 'finders of fact,' whether or not those facts suit the prosecution.
- ScottBurson 14y agoPlease read more closely before replying. You missed rhizome's point entirely.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- anigbrowl 14y agoI'm not sure that I agree with him about the widespread existence of this attitude, though.
- rhizome 14y agoIn a system that purports to consider suspects innocent until proven guilty, why is there stigma when the suspect is not proven guilty? The suspicion that they are actually guilty supersedes the idea that law enforcement (incl. the prosecutor) is fallible. The stigma derives from an authoritarian mindset in this way.
- anigbrowl 14y agoYes, but that's a feature of human psychology. A lot of people are authoritarians, and in a society where free speech is constitutionally protected they enjoy the right to trumpet their opinions about the likely guilt of people being acquitted.
- rhizome 14y agoSo would you agree that "innocent until proven guilty" is basically a lie, since "human psychology" drives society to consider suspects to be always-guilty regardless of the outcome of the accusation? At any rate, the stigma being discussed in this thread derives from this tendency of society, innate to its members or not.
- anigbrowl 14y agoNo, of course not. A court can acquit someone but it can't control how everyone thinks about the process. If a certain percentage of the population are authoritarians who believe the police are always right and defense lawyers are always tricksy shysters, there's not much the court can do about it other than acknowledging the facts that point to an acquittal. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
- 14y ago