4 ms·

It's important to note that even if this is true (and I suspect that the statistics lead more towards the statement that, "there is not a shortage of low-level

It's important to note that even if this is true (and I suspect that the statistics lead more towards the statement that, "there is not a shortage of low-level IT trained workers" rather than "there is not a shortage of very talented developers") it doesn't mean that the right thing is to limit immigration. Protectionism is almost always a negative for economic growth of a country. Even if wages in the US are depressed, that just means that wages were artificially high and that the US would soon become increasingly noncompetitive. The biggest problem with H-1B visas seem to be the restrictions on working for a single established employer rather than having too many of them.

geebee 14y ago
There can be a problem, though, with very uneven types of protectionism. For instance, suppose both apples and oranges are both subjected to very high tariffs. Then, you remove all tariffs from oranges, but leave them high on apples. you should expect domestic production to shift to apples and foreign production to shift to oranges, to the extent possible. I can see how you would feel that creating more work visas would lead to a freer market. However, if these visas are heavily concentrated in STEM fields, this may end up producing a very distorted market that deters US citizens from pursuing degrees in this field. One of the provisions of the immigration bill is to grant green cards to graduates of US-based STEM programs at the MS or PhD leve. Rather than a more general liberalization of immigration, that's just the sort of highly specific, targeted program that can produce severe market distortions. Many of the people who object to these visas actually support more general liberalization of immigration - they just object to visa programs that are based on the notion that we need to use immigration specifically to increase the size of the STEM workforce. This is because they believe, as this article suggests, there is no shortage of STEM workers.
rayiner 14y ago
It's misleading to paint it as a simple "free market" issue when STEM education in the U.S. is massively subsidized by the public.
qiqing 14y ago
Quick correction @Lock1689: It is possible for someone with an H-1B to transfer from one employer to another.
- pbiggar 14y ago
  And you can actually work for 2 of them by holding 2 H1Bs at the same time (which is what happens naturally when you transfer to a new company).
  - ktsmith 14y ago
    The I-94 (or I-797C) indicates which employer you can work for on an H1. When you transfer you don't get a new visa and the new I-94 invalidates the previous I-94. So you never hold two visas or two valid I-94s and are not authorized to work for two employers.
    - pbiggar 14y ago
      Hmmm. I agree I was not as technically accurate as I should have been, but I am 90% certain you can work for 2 H1B employers at the same time.
      - ktsmith 14y ago
        You can work for multiple employers on an H-1B if you have multiple approved I-129 petitions. Your original comment was in regards to a transfer which falls under AC-21. edit: Technicalities in immigration law can have large consequences, working outside of one's status, or for an unapproved employer can result in being removed from the US and being banned from return for a number of years depending on the circumstances.
- Locke1689 14y ago
  Cool! Didn't know that.
ebiester 14y ago
The problem is that you can't get very talented developers unless you're willing to let them enter into IT as low-level IT trained workers. That first job is often difficult. (The problem of course, is complex. An entry level worker may be worth x, whereas someone of 2 years is worth 4x. However, corporate incentives rarely work like that, leaving trained workers to leave in order to get raises.) If we're really honest, starting salaries should be low, with a near doubling of salary within 6 months, if we were looking at real productivity.

geebee 14y ago

There can be a problem, though, with very uneven types of protectionism. For instance, suppose both apples and oranges are both subjected to very high tariffs. Then, you remove all tariffs from oranges, but leave them high on apples. you should expect domestic production to shift to apples and foreign production to shift to oranges, to the extent possible. I can see how you would feel that creating more work visas would lead to a freer market. However, if these visas are heavily concentrated in STEM fields, this may end up producing a very distorted market that deters US citizens from pursuing degrees in this field. One of the provisions of the immigration bill is to grant green cards to graduates of US-based STEM programs at the MS or PhD leve. Rather than a more general liberalization of immigration, that's just the sort of highly specific, targeted program that can produce severe market distortions. Many of the people who object to these visas actually support more general liberalization of immigration - they just object to visa programs that are based on the notion that we need to use immigration specifically to increase the size of the STEM workforce. This is because they believe, as this article suggests, there is no shortage of STEM workers.

rayiner 14y ago

It's misleading to paint it as a simple "free market" issue when STEM education in the U.S. is massively subsidized by the public.

qiqing 14y ago

Quick correction @Lock1689: It is possible for someone with an H-1B to transfer from one employer to another.

pbiggar 14y ago
And you can actually work for 2 of them by holding 2 H1Bs at the same time (which is what happens naturally when you transfer to a new company).
- ktsmith 14y ago
  The I-94 (or I-797C) indicates which employer you can work for on an H1. When you transfer you don't get a new visa and the new I-94 invalidates the previous I-94. So you never hold two visas or two valid I-94s and are not authorized to work for two employers.
  - pbiggar 14y ago
    Hmmm. I agree I was not as technically accurate as I should have been, but I am 90% certain you can work for 2 H1B employers at the same time.
    - ktsmith 14y ago
      You can work for multiple employers on an H-1B if you have multiple approved I-129 petitions. Your original comment was in regards to a transfer which falls under AC-21. edit: Technicalities in immigration law can have large consequences, working outside of one's status, or for an unapproved employer can result in being removed from the US and being banned from return for a number of years depending on the circumstances.
Locke1689 14y ago
Cool! Didn't know that.

ebiester 14y ago

The problem is that you can't get very talented developers unless you're willing to let them enter into IT as low-level IT trained workers. That first job is often difficult. (The problem of course, is complex. An entry level worker may be worth x, whereas someone of 2 years is worth 4x. However, corporate incentives rarely work like that, leaving trained workers to leave in order to get raises.) If we're really honest, starting salaries should be low, with a near doubling of salary within 6 months, if we were looking at real productivity.