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Why? Because they're not as multicultural as the rest of Europe? Because they dare to live in a way that suits themselves? The promoters of diversity ueber all
by Kudzu_Bob 13y ago
Why? Because they're not as multicultural as the rest of Europe? Because they dare to live in a way that suits themselves?
The promoters of diversity ueber alles certainly are in touch with their inner totalitarian these days.
- bradleyjg 13y agoBecause it isn't worth the effort to bilaterally negotiate every little detail with tiny Switzerland. The EU has accommodated Switzerland's extreme go-it-alone ethos by offering membership in all but name. They did so out of a sense of shared history, affection, and mutual benefit. If the Switzerland is no longer interested they can truly go it alone. As for totalitarian, it's pretty rich to argue against free movement and in favor of rank nationalism and accuse your interlocutors of totalitarian tendencies.
- Kudzu_Bob 13y agoAristotle contended that justice consists of treating equals equally, and unequals unequally. You, on the other hand, want to treat Switzerland just like Turkey, even though the two countries are strikingly unequal.
- anigbrowl 13y agoAnalogies do not work that way! /Morbo You're using a very selective definition of 'equal.' Switzerland is certainly different from Turkey in various ways, but in this context they should be assessed on their degree of legal ties to the EU - treaties signed and complied with, for example. Arguably, Switzerland is getting far more benefits from the EU than Turkey despite neither of them being actual members.
- Kudzu_Bob 13y agoAnd they are making far better use of those benefits than Turkey ever could. For instance (since so many people here are fond of economic arguments), tiny Switzerland (population under eight million) has a GDP a bit over six hundred and thirty-five billion dollars. But even though Turkey has a population nine times greater, that country's GDP is only a hundred billion and change bigger than Switzerland's. If the Turks were as productive, their economy would be the equal of China's, with only a fraction of China's population. The Swiss literally get more done before their morning coffee break than the Turks do all day, maybe because they somehow manage to spend their time at useful tasks rather than blowing up Kurds, staging military coups, listening to crazy preachers, banning political parties, and so on. I'm glad the EU is helping them out, because they deserve it.
- anigbrowl 13y agoIn other words, I'm right so you change the subject to how lazy the Turks are. Well, Let's put Switzerland where Turkey is and vice-versa and see how well the Swiss do, shall we? Sorry, but your post comes off as pretty thinly-veiled racism, thanks to your highly selective use of statistics, dismissal of geography, and conflation of multiple historical events into the present.
- Kudzu_Bob 13y agoYour idea of putting the Swiss in Turkey is unworkable for the simple reason that nobody wants to go there. However, plenty of Turks move to Switzerland, where, I gather, their economic performance continues to be less than stellar. That crisp mountain air can only do so much, it seems.
- jacalata 13y agoAnd you want the EU to treat Switzerland like an EU country, even though they are manifestly (and deliberately) not equal. Everyone fails!
- Kudzu_Bob 13y agoBy what metric are they unequal? Crime rates? Economic output? Level of corruption? Degree of political freedom? What? You cannot name a single way in which Switzerland is not the equal, and often the superior, of the countries that comprise the European Union. It even has the highest per capita rate of Nobel Prize winners On the other hand, Turkey is known for Islamic fundamentalism, ethnic wars, military coups, violence against women, and a level of intellectual accomplishment that ranks somewhere between D+ and C-.
- Gormo 13y ago> By what metric are they unequal? Crime rates? Economic output? Level of corruption? Degree of political freedom? What? Political culture, economic customs and practices, actual membership in the European Union...
- jacalata 13y agothanks. I hadn't specified since I thought the point of difference was so blindingly obvious in context, but I guess not to everyone.
- Kudzu_Bob 13y agoYou forgot to add, "and not being handcuffed to a dead man."
- jacalata 13y agoso...you think the EU is a bad thing (I assume that's the dead man you are talking about), and Switzerland made the right decision to not tie themselves to it, but those countries that did decide to join it should give Switzerland all the benefits that would accrue from being a member while allowing them to avoid any possible negative outcomes, because Switzerland is just so awesome. That's an interesting perspective.
- Gormo 13y agoIsn't Switzerland, on any meaningful account, far more "multicultural" than the rest of Europe? We're talking about what's arguably the most decentralized country in the world here; the one in which four different languages are dominant in different regions. And, aside from all that, artificially-enforced uniformity seems no less totalitarian than artificially-enforced diversity. Wouldn't you regard any legislative policy that attempts to direct the composition of civil society - toward any goal - to be inherently totalitarian? Certainly it at least creates a sort of circular reference in the mechanism of democracy: how can the state be held accountable to society if it has the power to manipulate society?
- Kudzu_Bob 13y agoSwitzerland is far more multicultural than the rest of Europe. Switzerland must embrace multiculturalism the way the rest of Europe has. Switzerland is the most decentralized country in the world. Switzerland is inherently totalitarian. Legislative policy that attempts to direct the composition of civil society is bad when citizens vote for it. Legislative policy that attempts to direct the composition of civil society is good when it is imposed on an unwilling citizenry by a foreign bureaucracy. Got it. Everything is much clearer now.