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I have to say this article really annoyed me. Maybe I read too much into it, but he seems to be snubbing people who take vacation. I'm glad not vacationing wo

I have to say this article really annoyed me. Maybe I read too much into it, but he seems to be snubbing people who take vacation. I'm glad not vacationing works for him, and it's his life to live, but that's not for everybody. I wouldn't write an article snubbing people who work all the time, and I don't see why he needs to snub people who take vacation. Second, he seems incredibly proud to be working all the time. A good portion of the article is basically, "Hey, check me out! I'm working all the time! How cool am I?". Get over it. Third, the author has a hugely exaggerated sense of self-importance. Reading the article, you'd think he's curing cancer and AIDs and cleaning up the environment all at once. Take this, for example: "But startups are different. Startups are a mission; a belief that something impossible is actually possible. It’s being part of a team that is working toward some distant horizon. It’s this competing against the impossible that makes it so much fun." And what is the distant horizon he's working toward? From the 42 Floors home page, it's "The best place to find office space." That's the impossible he's making possible? That's why he's working 100% of the time? What a joke.

pc86 14y ago
I've noticed this about a lot of startups. Even more so than everyone thinks they're The Next Big Thing, everyone thinks their mission is Incredibly Important and whatever Capitalized Buzzword is in at the moment. It's important to have passion, and to believe in your product. Your product doesn't need to feed the poor or clothe the needy for you to be passionate about it, but my word there is nothing revolutionary about commercial real estate (to use 42Floors as an (unfair?) example).
aashaykumar92 14y ago
"And what is the distant horizon he's working toward? From the 42 Floors home page, it's 'The best place to find office space.' That's the impossible he's making possible? That's why he's working 100% of the time? What a joke." I respect all your prior annoyances, and don't care to comment on them, but this one pissed me off. 42Floors seems to be doing a fucking awesome job in helping startups, even well established companies, find office space. Pissing on their efforts by making some snide remark ('what a joke') is completely uncalled for. Finding office space IS a huge problem for companies, especially startups who don't have much money but still need some space...42Floors is making that process (which I'm sure can sometimes be seemingly impossible) far simpler by providing the service that they are.
- jlarocco 14y ago
  Yeah, it's a great service they're offering, and I didn't mean to imply it's not. But the author seems to be putting it right up there with fighting for civil rights or vaccinating children or helping the poor. And that's taking it too far. It's good to be motivated and passionate about work, but it's also good to have perspective.
  - jaf12duke 14y ago
    I don't think passion is limited to fighting for civil rights. But you're right in that I do talk about startups as a mission. And that's because a startup's default result is failing. It takes extraordinary efforts to avoid that default result and very, very few ever make it. For what it's worth, I worked for 5 years running a non-profit as well. Loved that job too. I don't find passionate work to be limited to either startups or non-profits.
  - jimhart3000 14y ago
    This made me think of Bret Victor's talk Inventing on Principle where he encourages the audience to basically do what you're criticizing - sort of developing an activist mentality for the problem you're trying to solve, even if it may seem trivial to some. http://vimeo.com/36579366 http://vimeo.com/36579366
  - derefr 14y ago
    > it's also good to have perspective I would argue the opposite: if everyone took a global perspective on everything, nobody would ever do anything except work to extend the human lifespan. For humanity to be worth anything, it needs to strive for "useless" goals--art, humor, making money, etc. And to be motivated to strive for these goals, you need to think what you're doing is the most important thing you could be doing--even if, in a global sense, it's not.
- jaggederest 14y ago
  Is it enough of a problem to burn the rest of your life on a pyre in service of that goal?
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
kyllo 14y ago
I think you did read too much into it. He's saying that even when you have a liberal vacation policy at a startup, and even when you encourage people to take advantage of it, they still don't take vacation because the type of people who do startups are workaholics. So if you're going to work there, you should take a couple weeks off before you start, because you probably aren't going to want to afterward. Telling a workaholic at a startup, "you can take as much vacation as you want" is really telling them, "take as little vacation as you need." A vacation for a workaholic is like a pitstop for a racecar driver. But if you give people a set number of vacation days per month or year, and refuse to roll them over, aka "use it or lose it" policy, then you will see them start taking vacation. (This part is my observation, not the OP's)
- derefr 14y ago
  > But if you give people a set number of vacation days per month or year, and refuse to roll them over, aka "use it or lose it" policy, then you will see them start taking vacation. (This part is my observation, not the OP's) I would say that, for getting true workaholics to take time off, even that's too lax. Enforced paid leave for all employees might be a better solution. For that matter, if it won't kill the company, try closing the office for a month each year. :)
  - kyllo 14y ago
    The finance/banking industry has this. Investment bankers are usually required to take 2 consecutive weeks off every year. The reasoning behind it is, it is much harder to cover up fraud if you are forced to be away from the office for two entire weeks, because they can audit your books while you're gone.
    - hga 14y ago
      Not so much that they can audit your books, but that any scheme you're running that requires constant intervention will fail and be detected by e.g. the books just not balancing at the end of the week. I seem to remember hearing this policy goes all the way down to bank tellers.
jaf12duke 14y ago
The opposite was intended. See this paragraph: But that doesn’t mean startup people don’t need vacations – we clearly do. If for no other reason than our best ideas come when we’ve been able to disengage from the problem in front of us. Vacations are a change of scenery. They’re a chance for perspective. They’re quality time with our friends, family and significant others. They’re a chance to see the world, to waste away the day reading books, playing chess, trying new things. Vacations are 100% essential.
johnrob 14y ago
What matters in this case is having a mission, not the specifics of what the mission is. That's what makes vacations tough - the trip can cause the same frustration that a speed bump does for drivers.
vinceguidry 14y ago
You didn't get far enough into the article. Company policy at the startup he runs is unlimited paid time off and a 'just short of mandatory' two week paid "precation" immediately before beginning work.

pc86 14y ago

I've noticed this about a lot of startups. Even more so than everyone thinks they're The Next Big Thing, everyone thinks their mission is Incredibly Important and whatever Capitalized Buzzword is in at the moment. It's important to have passion, and to believe in your product. Your product doesn't need to feed the poor or clothe the needy for you to be passionate about it, but my word there is nothing revolutionary about commercial real estate (to use 42Floors as an (unfair?) example).

aashaykumar92 14y ago

"And what is the distant horizon he's working toward? From the 42 Floors home page, it's 'The best place to find office space.' That's the impossible he's making possible? That's why he's working 100% of the time? What a joke." I respect all your prior annoyances, and don't care to comment on them, but this one pissed me off. 42Floors seems to be doing a fucking awesome job in helping startups, even well established companies, find office space. Pissing on their efforts by making some snide remark ('what a joke') is completely uncalled for. Finding office space IS a huge problem for companies, especially startups who don't have much money but still need some space...42Floors is making that process (which I'm sure can sometimes be seemingly impossible) far simpler by providing the service that they are.

jlarocco 14y ago
Yeah, it's a great service they're offering, and I didn't mean to imply it's not. But the author seems to be putting it right up there with fighting for civil rights or vaccinating children or helping the poor. And that's taking it too far. It's good to be motivated and passionate about work, but it's also good to have perspective.
- jaf12duke 14y ago
  I don't think passion is limited to fighting for civil rights. But you're right in that I do talk about startups as a mission. And that's because a startup's default result is failing. It takes extraordinary efforts to avoid that default result and very, very few ever make it. For what it's worth, I worked for 5 years running a non-profit as well. Loved that job too. I don't find passionate work to be limited to either startups or non-profits.
- jimhart3000 14y ago
  This made me think of Bret Victor's talk Inventing on Principle where he encourages the audience to basically do what you're criticizing - sort of developing an activist mentality for the problem you're trying to solve, even if it may seem trivial to some. http://vimeo.com/36579366 http://vimeo.com/36579366
- derefr 14y ago
  > it's also good to have perspective I would argue the opposite: if everyone took a global perspective on everything, nobody would ever do anything except work to extend the human lifespan. For humanity to be worth anything, it needs to strive for "useless" goals--art, humor, making money, etc. And to be motivated to strive for these goals, you need to think what you're doing is the most important thing you could be doing--even if, in a global sense, it's not.
jaggederest 14y ago
Is it enough of a problem to burn the rest of your life on a pyre in service of that goal?

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

kyllo 14y ago

I think you did read too much into it. He's saying that even when you have a liberal vacation policy at a startup, and even when you encourage people to take advantage of it, they still don't take vacation because the type of people who do startups are workaholics. So if you're going to work there, you should take a couple weeks off before you start, because you probably aren't going to want to afterward. Telling a workaholic at a startup, "you can take as much vacation as you want" is really telling them, "take as little vacation as you need." A vacation for a workaholic is like a pitstop for a racecar driver. But if you give people a set number of vacation days per month or year, and refuse to roll them over, aka "use it or lose it" policy, then you will see them start taking vacation. (This part is my observation, not the OP's)

derefr 14y ago
> But if you give people a set number of vacation days per month or year, and refuse to roll them over, aka "use it or lose it" policy, then you will see them start taking vacation. (This part is my observation, not the OP's) I would say that, for getting true workaholics to take time off, even that's too lax. Enforced paid leave for all employees might be a better solution. For that matter, if it won't kill the company, try closing the office for a month each year. :)
- kyllo 14y ago
  The finance/banking industry has this. Investment bankers are usually required to take 2 consecutive weeks off every year. The reasoning behind it is, it is much harder to cover up fraud if you are forced to be away from the office for two entire weeks, because they can audit your books while you're gone.
  - hga 14y ago
    Not so much that they can audit your books, but that any scheme you're running that requires constant intervention will fail and be detected by e.g. the books just not balancing at the end of the week. I seem to remember hearing this policy goes all the way down to bank tellers.

jaf12duke 14y ago

The opposite was intended. See this paragraph: But that doesn’t mean startup people don’t need vacations – we clearly do. If for no other reason than our best ideas come when we’ve been able to disengage from the problem in front of us. Vacations are a change of scenery. They’re a chance for perspective. They’re quality time with our friends, family and significant others. They’re a chance to see the world, to waste away the day reading books, playing chess, trying new things. Vacations are 100% essential.

johnrob 14y ago

What matters in this case is having a mission, not the specifics of what the mission is. That's what makes vacations tough - the trip can cause the same frustration that a speed bump does for drivers.

vinceguidry 14y ago

You didn't get far enough into the article. Company policy at the startup he runs is unlimited paid time off and a 'just short of mandatory' two week paid "precation" immediately before beginning work.