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Paypal President: We're thinking about adding Bitcoin (2:50) [video]
- hogu 14y agothat's so garbage, I remember back in the early days, they were closing down accounts used in bitcoin exchanges. Getting money into bitcoin exchanges was a huge problem. Besides, with bitcoin, why use paypal? Is paypal going go try to act as an exchange between btc and usd?
- betterunix 14y ago"Besides, with bitcoin, why use paypal?" If you have a bunch of Bitcoin money but need to do business with people who will only accept fiat currencies, you need some kind of exchange service. I suspect that is what Paypal will do.
- lucb1e 14y agoOr they start to act like Bitpay, providing payment (or donation) services. In addition they could exchange BTC against other currencies at the current market rate from a market exchange like Btc-e, mt.gox or bitcoin-central.
- mtgx 14y agoInstead of Coinbase being the Paypal for Bitcoin...Paypal could be the Paypal for Bitcoin.
- madmaze 14y agoIt's interesting they showed paypal.com screenshots from early 2000's
- purephase 14y agoIt's changed since then?
- lucb1e 14y agoCan't click this link right now. Abbreviated transcript please? It's weird to see Paypal and Bitcoin in one sentence on the domain bloomberg.com... Bloomberg is one of the biggest financial companies and entirely against Bitcoin. I can't rhyme this; what are they saying about it?
- ceejayoz 14y agoBloomberg is a news organization too. Them not covering financial news like Bitcoin would be the weird thing - it'd be like FOX News not covering terror attacks because they're anti-terrorism.
- magoghm 14y agoHe say's: Bitcoin is truly fascinating. For us at PayPal it's just a question of whether bitcoin will make its way to PayPal as a funding instrument or not, and we are kind of thinking about it.
- lucb1e 14y agoThanks a lot!
- apaprocki 14y ago> Bloomberg is one of the biggest financial companies and entirely against Bitcoin. You say this as if it is fact. Care to expand on why you feel this way?
- lucb1e 14y agoIt seemed to me that they were publishing negative news articles about Bitcoin non-stop while the price was climbing. I have a Google News Alert for Bitcoin, and (if I remember correctly) almost every day there would be some negative headline about it from Bloomberg. I then looked up what kinda website it was on Wikipedia, and it turns out they make up 1/3rd of the global financial data market. That kinda confirmed their motivations for me. I might still be wrong of course, perhaps I should have made more clear that it was my opinion and not really a fact. To me it was like a fact, but now that you make me think about it more objectively, I realize that I can't really say for sure.
- chiph 14y agoDoubtful. I expect this is a tactical marketing play to associate themselves with the current hipness of Bitcoin.
- jusben1369 14y agoPayPal seems to have justly earned their reputation for frustrating many developers. Having said that, this is a new President and he has done nothing but say the right things since coming in. They've also realized major improvements to their API's/Docs etc. I'm not saying it's kumbaya time just yet. But I do think some reciprocal open mindedness from the developer community is appropriate to encourage further advancements in PayPal's approach to the web dev world. At least until we see that the leopards spots are no different.
- purephase 14y agoRealized major improvements is a bit of an over-statement. They've made some new APIs available to US developers while completing sabotaging their existing developer toolset and sandbox environments to the point that they're almost unusable. I could forgive this if their support seemed even remotely cognizant of these changes, but every time I get in touch with them it's like they're hearing about it for the first time.
- drcode 14y agoI disagree: If they had no interest in integrating with bitcoin, the smart move for paypal would be to just spread FUD about bitcoins at every opportunity.
- threeseed 14y agoI disagree: If they did spread FUD they would be widely considered to be out of touch by the IT crowd. The same crowd they need to be incorporating the Paypal APIs into their apps.
- obviouslygreen 14y ago
- nemonoko 14y ago"We're thinking about it" - They better be, because if decentralized payments hit the mainstream, PayPal's 3.9% fee is going bye-bye.
- amalag 14y agoPaypal takes 3.9% ? No, you have to see how much credit card companies take and how much paypal takes. They likely get less than half that.
- MacsHeadroom 14y agoFor international sales PayPal takes 3.9% plus a flat rate fee ($1-$5) plus a poor exchange rate which adds in a hidden 2-3%. In total they can end up taking $12 on a $100 purchase. But you're right, most of that probably goes to the credit card company.
- tonez 14y agoThe main line: "So I've been spending a lot of time looking at it. It's truly fascinating, actually, the way the currency's been designed and the way inflation is built-in to pay for miners and all that, it's truly fascinating. And I think, for us at PayPapl, it's just a question of whether Bitcoin will make its way to PayPal's funding instrument or not, and we're kind of thinking about it right now."
- lingben 14y agoinflation? I think he means DEflation
- drcode 14y agoBitcoin has inflation in the short term but deflation in the long term. Right now more bitcoins are still being generated, so I think the term "inflation" makes sense.
- etherael 14y agoNot for the next 127 years.
- mckoss 14y agoIn 8 years (by 2021) 90% of Bitcoins will have been issued. Strictly speaking, the supply is inflating continuously, though it is unlikely to ever be growing faster than future demand (we seem to have past that point within the last year). The only reason economists would call Bitcoin deflationary is the presumption of constantly growing demand.
- BadCRC 14y ago> Strictly speaking, the supply is inflating continuously what about Bitcoins being lost? perhaps we should also consider coins that are not used in the past five years also "lost".
- fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
- benhebert 14y agoI expect this news alone will make Bitcoin go up $30 - $40 today.
- axusgrad 14y agoPaypal would do very well buying and selling Bitcoins. Buying bitcoins with Paypal is a very common request, which most sellers won't do because Paypal makes it very easy to rip off the seller.
- eurleif 14y ago>Buying bitcoins with Paypal is a very common request, which most sellers won't do because Paypal makes it very easy to rip off the seller. Where are you observing that it's a common request? Could it be a common request because it's easy to rip off the seller, in the same way that assistance transferring a dead relative's funds out of Nigeria is a common request?
- abrkn 14y agoYes, this is a very common request: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=sturles http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=sturles
- Mahn 14y agoBitcoin itself doesn't need PayPal, but the bigger picture here is that PayPal integrating BTC could boost awareness like few things could for the currency.
- mcantelon 14y ago"You'll never lose a penny while using Paypal." Unless your account is frozen...
- johnward 14y agoIs everyone forgetting that Paypal just sucks in general?
- bithive123 14y agoAt least it can probably handle more than seven transactions a second, unlike the Bitcoin network. Future of currency indeed.
- iso8859-1 14y agoThe network is P2P, there is no limit to the amount of transactions per second it can handle. MtGox is not the network.
- bithive123 14y agoIncorrect. From the wiki: Today the Bitcoin network is restricted to a sustained rate of 7 tps by some artificial limits. These were put in place to stop people from ballooning the size of the block chain before the network and community was ready for it. Once those limits are lifted, the maximum transaction rate will go up significantly. Of course, a significant increase from 7tps still might fall well short of what is required for real commerce. If you look at this graph of the daily transaction rate, you can see that the actual performance of the network is somewhat less than 1tps: http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions For comparison, there are probably more than seven transactions per second going on in any small to medium sized city, let alone worldwide.
- vlasta2 14y agoOh, dear. If I were the president of PayPal and wanted to make quick buck, I would buy some bitcoins, released news like this, and sold my bitcoins the next day with a nice profit. And then, I could just deny the news, sending bitcoin value back where it was so that it is ready for the next exploiter... Heh. But seriously, PayPal and Bitcoin are by nature rivals. If PayPal wanted to have a crypto-currency, it would develop its own, not validate and boost value of another one gaining nothing in the process.
- ok_craig 14y agoA lot of what keeps regular Joes away from bitcoin is its complexity and the difficulty of keeping your funds secure. If PayPal were to make the most secure, easiest-to-use bitcoin wallet, they could profit greatly from it and also provide something that doesn't really exist anywhere yet. All PayPal does right now is help you get dollars from point A to point B, and in the process they take a cut. They could do the same thing with bitcoin. I don't think it would be competition with bitcoin, it would be promoting it to mutual benefit. I would be afraid of them providing this service without allowing you to export your data, however, which seems like the kind of thing PayPal might like to do. If your bitcoins were trapped in their system you're always in danger of having your account frozen as has been a problem up to now. Part of the purpose of bitcoin is to be able to avoid that, so I'd hate for PayPal to bring that whole problem to the bitcoin world. But if they approach it properly, bitcoin could be a great opportunity for PayPal, instead of a threat.
- vlasta2 14y agoI am sorry I cannot agree with you. You cannot collect profits from a transaction between 2 Bitcoin users like PayPal does right now with "real" money. If the world adopted Bitcoin, it would be the end of PayPal's business model. If PayPal were ready to replace their business model with something way less profitable, but more future-proof, it would still make no sense for them to adopt bitcoin. It would only make sense if they owned significant amount (50%) of the existing bitcoins and had the code base under at least indirect control. What would happen if this were true and the bitcoiners found out? ...too many ifs. That said, Bitcoin will never become a commonly used currency in its current form. The built-in deflation is a fatal flaw, which makes it unusable for normal buyers or sellers. It is only appealing for "get-rich-quick" investors, which is a shame, 'cause we really need a good solution (0% fee & safe) for online payments.
- aioprisan 14y agoaren't bitcoin transactions irreversible, making it incompatible with PayPal general policies?
- bonzoesc 14y agoBitcoin transactions are irreversible, but so are cash transactions. Wrapping either currency with a transaction model that introduces a delay between commitment and transfer allows reversing during the delay. Paypal transactions are reversible because there's a delay between me confirming the order with a merchant and the funds appearing in their account. Paypal bitcoin would be similar; I deposit BTC with Paypal, and a week or two after I approve sending to a merchant, the merchant gets BTC in their Paypal account.
- illuminate 14y agoIt's a perfect method to transfer BTC ~into~ someone's PayPal account.
- amalag 14y agoPaypal already encourages you to use your bank account instead of a credit card. Paypal is not Visa/mastercard. They have to make their money in addition to whatever the credit card is making. It only makes sense they look at bitcoin as a method for frictionless digital payment.
- altoz 14y agoIt sounds like they see it as a way to get money into paypal. That is, it's no different than a bank deposit. In other words, an easy way to transfer BTC->USD ("funding instrument"). What they'll then do is dump the BTC they get on the market. Not a bad idea, but it seems they're thinking too small.
- tlrobinson 14y agoYeah, just like Western Union was "thinking about" Bitcoin.
- knodi 14y agoPlease don't. Bitcoin is a ticking time bomb. When it goes off you don't want to be the one holding the coins.
- psionski 14y agoDude, don't mention bombs and bitcoins on the Internet. CISPA passed and if they kick your door down, you'll most probably have to pay for the repairs out of your own pocket.
- khet 14y agoIf Bitcoin does succeed, I don't see a regular person wanting to manage his own wallet and security let alone understand all the complexity that is bitcoin. I see Bitcoin becoming the underlying infrastructure on which companies like Paypal, Square, Banks and other financial institutions trade. If Paypal does invest in adding Bitcoin, it would be right step ahead for Bitcoin and for Paypal.
- Drakim 14y agoThe real win is that if it becomes the underlying infrastructure, it is still possible for the common man to have a "manual wallet". You won't end up in walled garden situations where a single vendor controls with massive fees and restrictions, but you have no choice but to use them, because hey, that's all everybody accepts and uses. If an online wallet service/paypal/visa is gonna keep your business, they have to make what they offer be worth their fees.
- blake8086 14y agoWhat if you have large vendors like PayPal only offering transfer to other institutionally-controlled wallets? for example: "Since your funds are transferred only between other PayPal users, PayPal can always reverse a fraudulent transaction." Then you would have a veritable roach motel of bitcoins.
- celticninja 14y agoyou could easily send BTC out of paypal to any bitcoin address, they could nto sue it and disable those coins from accessing the blockchain. However they could say that if you do a BTC transfer from paypal account to paypal account they could offer protection then by freezing the funds or having a 5 day period before the user could withdraw them. Once they are withdrawn there is nothing paypal could do, of course this removes the immediacy of payment aspect of bitcoin so merchants may not want it. Really because bitcoinoffers low fees this sort of service would be of benefit to the buyer only. Alternatively PayPal could use bitcoin as their backend for transferring money internationally. If i want to pay someone in USD but only have EUR then they could exchange EUR for BTC then BTC for USD and pay the USD to whoever I was paying.
- oomkiller 14y agoDidn't Paypal start out as a Palm Pilot app that transmitted money using cryptography? I think it's interesting that bitcoin is kind of the 21st century version of that.
- smaili 14y agoWhat would be the benefit for PayPal adding Bitcoin? I feel like this is analogous to BoA saying you can now login to our site using your Chase account...Doesn't make sense to me.
- Havoc 14y agoBC does lack an easy way to buy them right now for many countries, so this would be welcome. e.g. I'd either have to find a local seller (unlikely) or go through 2x different online "currencies" till I get the BC.
- iguana 14y agoAnything that increases bitcoin liquidity is good for bitcoin. Anything that increases PayPal's market opportunity is good for PayPal. A lot of people want to purchase bitcoins with their PayPal accounts, and since PayPal is already licensed as a MSB, this just requires technology. They can build or buy (Coinbase), and make a pretty significant revenue on conversion fees. They could also charge a small fee for bitcoin transactions over a certain amount, in exchange for convenience, or, for example, transaction insurance, which can be underwritten, eliminating the risk. PayPal can do a lot for Bitcoin, and vice versa. If Bitcoin continues to be successful, PayPal can continue to have a significant portion of the online transaction pie.
- nazgulnarsil 14y agoThis along with comments from Western Union have surprised me. But it does make sense. These companies would be foolish not to stay open to pivoting with market demands. Right now it is "we're aware of it", if it starts to take off I expect them to integrate it into their business models to capture part of that growing value. Remember that in the gold rush you got rich selling pickaxes. WU and Paypal stand to profit from bitcoin with very little risk if they play it right.
- unreal37 14y agoWhy wouldn't Paypal invent its own Bitcoin (i.e. Paycoin) and have complete control of the system? Why would they want to use Bitcoin at all? I mean, they're the 800 lb gorilla of online payments. They'd be smarter to invent their own thing than to use someone else's if they can.
- Mahn 14y agoYeah, and for that matter, why would anyone partner with Facebook, when you could easily build another social network? I mean look at Google, they clearly pulled that off without a problem. Bitcoin is used and has value. The same could most likely not be said about a hypothetical currency created by Paypal, specially considering one of the most important assets Bitcoin has is its decentralized and unregulated nature.
- Havoc 14y agoIts strange though to mention something like that at a "thinking about it" level. If paypal were to actually implement it, surely taking the world by surprise would be the better strategy.
- felipelalli 14y agoGreat! :)