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The problem with families is a real one. If you choose to have a family, well, you are going to have a lot less time and energy to put into your career. It's

by lsc 14y ago

The problem with families is a real one. If you choose to have a family, well, you are going to have a lot less time and energy to put into your career. It's as bad as a MMPOG addiction; worse, probably, most people don't have the guts to ask for time off for a raid. But, I don't think that has a lot to do with what we see as age discrimination; It does give the young kids a boost, but most people start families in their mid to late '20s, and even in the computer industry, that's young. By the time you are hitting 50 and seeing real age discrimination? your kids are almost taking care of themselves. (or, at least, they are leeching money, not time.)

michaelochurch 14y ago
In VC-istan and on Wall Street, you see age discrimination sooner. Then again, that may have to do with extreme costs of living and mediocre quality of life pushing a lot of people out as they get into their family-building years. But my observation has been that age discrimination starts in the late 20s, although it doesn't become a show-stopper (only an annoyance) till much later. It's not about absolute age. It's about harsh age grading. If you're 37 and VP/Eng, you're fine. If you haven't held a management position by that age, it starts to raise questions (even if you have no desire to manage). Hell, even at 26 you're out of the running for analyst-level positions in banking; you better have something that shows you're associate-level (a graduate degree or strong technical accomplishments). I'm 29 and already experiencing age discrimination. I'm losing callbacks because I have "too many jobs" (which is basically a legal, back-door age discrimination although it's about the cynicism and "disruptive" expertise that come with "job hopping", not chronological years). Now, any place that has that attitude is a shitty place to work, but sometimes shitty jobs are useful and it's a loss (not a major one, but it affects leverage and financial planning) not to have them as options.
- lsc 14y ago
  >I'm 29 and already experiencing age discrimination. I'm losing callbacks because I have "too many jobs" (which is basically a legal, back-door age discrimination although it's about the cynicism and "disruptive" expertise that come with "job hopping", not chronological years) well, to the best of my knowledge, at twenty nine, you are not in a protected class. the age protected class is 45 and up, I believe. I'm skeptical of this idea that you face age discrimination before 30. It doesn't line up with any of the statistical data, and it certainly doesn't line up with any of my anecdotal data. (I'm older than you are, but not by a whole lot.) I mean, I could be wrong, of course, but that's below the median age, most places I've worked. (I mean, if you are talking specifically about web-startups that are still in the startup phase, then that's old. but that's a pretty small percentage of the job market. It takes a whole lot of web startups to make one yahoo in terms of number of engineering jobs. And generally speaking, the startups pay shit, so they get young workers trying to get their foot in the door, young workers who move up and out to the larger companies that pay more.) Maybe you just have higher standards than I do? I mean, I thought getting paid six figures as a unix janitor in an area where that salary means I live in a condo (or buy during the downturns; the median santa clara county single family home last year was two hundred thousand dollars cheaper than the median single family home this year. Last year, median was a reasonable half-million.) means I'm doing pretty good. I mean, yeah, if you want to make millions of dollars a year, you are going to be on something of an accelerated schedule. On the other hand, I haven't seriously tried to get a full-time job working for someone else for several years now, so maybe I'm just not seeing it.
  - danbmil99 14y ago
    > the age protected class is 45 and up I'm in an "age protected class"? Quick, I need to get hired, fired, and hire a lawyer.
    - lsc 14y ago
      meh, my grammar... is poor today. Also, apparently, it's 40, not 45. http://finduslaw.com/age-discrimination-employment-act-1967-adea-29-us-code-chapter-14 http://finduslaw.com/age-discrimination-employment-act-1967-...
- jmspring 14y ago
  I just don't see it. I'm much older than you and have had no problems. You mention too many jobs. What is your duration at such? If your history shows a consistent pattern of moving on every 18mo or so, it will raise flags about your commitment level. It has nothing to do with age at that point for many people I know when they look at resumes. Of course, the other end of that is many years at the same org can raise questions if it shows a lack if advancement.
- gte910h 14y ago
  >I'm 29 and already experiencing age discrimination. I'm losing callbacks because I have "too many jobs" Sounds like you are just not applying to senior enough positions
  - vinceguidry 14y ago
    Another option is to massage your resume so it reflects what the company is going to want to see. Project only the image you need to to get the job. Strip everything out but the five or so best-looking jobs, add a year or two on to the hire dates if you feel the need. Let them ask you what you did between jobs. ("Consulting. Not terribly interesting.") I don't think any hiring manager or recruiter wants to wade through a sea of text, anyway.
    - gte910h 14y ago
      There is a word for that: Lying.
      - vinceguidry 14y ago
        Nothing unethical about putting your best foot forward.
        gte910h 14y ago
        >Strip everything out but the five or so best-looking jobs, add a year or two on to the hire dates if you feel the need. That's lying. It's REALLY STUPID lying at that. Your employment duration is one of the things companies are unequivocally allowed to say, and often do.
        vinceguidry 14y ago
        You can get around that by having your buddy pose as the hiring manager. Wish I had the stones to actually pull something like that. Go total Sociopath and see how far I can take it.
ralphc 14y ago
By the time you hit 50 you're taking care of aging parents. This can be worse than kids if they live somewhere else.
- lsc 14y ago
  meh, the previous generation is /dramatically/ better set for retirement than this generation seems to be. Defined benefit pensions are a real thing for them, as is healthcare for life as a retirement benefit. Often these things start in the '50s. a lot of this is that risk-free investments had a positive expected return when they were working. Imagine that; T-bills that pay out more than inflation! I mean, it's a total thing of the past now, of course.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]

by lsc 14y ago

michaelochurch 14y ago

In VC-istan and on Wall Street, you see age discrimination sooner. Then again, that may have to do with extreme costs of living and mediocre quality of life pushing a lot of people out as they get into their family-building years. But my observation has been that age discrimination starts in the late 20s, although it doesn't become a show-stopper (only an annoyance) till much later. It's not about absolute age. It's about harsh age grading. If you're 37 and VP/Eng, you're fine. If you haven't held a management position by that age, it starts to raise questions (even if you have no desire to manage). Hell, even at 26 you're out of the running for analyst-level positions in banking; you better have something that shows you're associate-level (a graduate degree or strong technical accomplishments). I'm 29 and already experiencing age discrimination. I'm losing callbacks because I have "too many jobs" (which is basically a legal, back-door age discrimination although it's about the cynicism and "disruptive" expertise that come with "job hopping", not chronological years). Now, any place that has that attitude is a shitty place to work, but sometimes shitty jobs are useful and it's a loss (not a major one, but it affects leverage and financial planning) not to have them as options.

lsc 14y ago
>I'm 29 and already experiencing age discrimination. I'm losing callbacks because I have "too many jobs" (which is basically a legal, back-door age discrimination although it's about the cynicism and "disruptive" expertise that come with "job hopping", not chronological years) well, to the best of my knowledge, at twenty nine, you are not in a protected class. the age protected class is 45 and up, I believe. I'm skeptical of this idea that you face age discrimination before 30. It doesn't line up with any of the statistical data, and it certainly doesn't line up with any of my anecdotal data. (I'm older than you are, but not by a whole lot.) I mean, I could be wrong, of course, but that's below the median age, most places I've worked. (I mean, if you are talking specifically about web-startups that are still in the startup phase, then that's old. but that's a pretty small percentage of the job market. It takes a whole lot of web startups to make one yahoo in terms of number of engineering jobs. And generally speaking, the startups pay shit, so they get young workers trying to get their foot in the door, young workers who move up and out to the larger companies that pay more.) Maybe you just have higher standards than I do? I mean, I thought getting paid six figures as a unix janitor in an area where that salary means I live in a condo (or buy during the downturns; the median santa clara county single family home last year was two hundred thousand dollars cheaper than the median single family home this year. Last year, median was a reasonable half-million.) means I'm doing pretty good. I mean, yeah, if you want to make millions of dollars a year, you are going to be on something of an accelerated schedule. On the other hand, I haven't seriously tried to get a full-time job working for someone else for several years now, so maybe I'm just not seeing it.
- danbmil99 14y ago
  > the age protected class is 45 and up I'm in an "age protected class"? Quick, I need to get hired, fired, and hire a lawyer.
  - lsc 14y ago
    meh, my grammar... is poor today. Also, apparently, it's 40, not 45. http://finduslaw.com/age-discrimination-employment-act-1967-adea-29-us-code-chapter-14 http://finduslaw.com/age-discrimination-employment-act-1967-...
jmspring 14y ago
I just don't see it. I'm much older than you and have had no problems. You mention too many jobs. What is your duration at such? If your history shows a consistent pattern of moving on every 18mo or so, it will raise flags about your commitment level. It has nothing to do with age at that point for many people I know when they look at resumes. Of course, the other end of that is many years at the same org can raise questions if it shows a lack if advancement.
gte910h 14y ago
>I'm 29 and already experiencing age discrimination. I'm losing callbacks because I have "too many jobs" Sounds like you are just not applying to senior enough positions
- vinceguidry 14y ago
  Another option is to massage your resume so it reflects what the company is going to want to see. Project only the image you need to to get the job. Strip everything out but the five or so best-looking jobs, add a year or two on to the hire dates if you feel the need. Let them ask you what you did between jobs. ("Consulting. Not terribly interesting.") I don't think any hiring manager or recruiter wants to wade through a sea of text, anyway.
  - gte910h 14y ago
    There is a word for that: Lying.
    - vinceguidry 14y ago
      Nothing unethical about putting your best foot forward.
      - gte910h 14y ago
        >Strip everything out but the five or so best-looking jobs, add a year or two on to the hire dates if you feel the need. That's lying. It's REALLY STUPID lying at that. Your employment duration is one of the things companies are unequivocally allowed to say, and often do.
        vinceguidry 14y ago
        You can get around that by having your buddy pose as the hiring manager. Wish I had the stones to actually pull something like that. Go total Sociopath and see how far I can take it.

ralphc 14y ago

By the time you hit 50 you're taking care of aging parents. This can be worse than kids if they live somewhere else.

lsc 14y ago
meh, the previous generation is /dramatically/ better set for retirement than this generation seems to be. Defined benefit pensions are a real thing for them, as is healthcare for life as a retirement benefit. Often these things start in the '50s. a lot of this is that risk-free investments had a positive expected return when they were working. Imagine that; T-bills that pay out more than inflation! I mean, it's a total thing of the past now, of course.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]