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exactly, I believe this is still done. I'm just jumping into the middle of these threads and perhaps this has already been said but I believe that the H1-B prog

exactly, I believe this is still done. I'm just jumping into the middle of these threads and perhaps this has already been said but I believe that the H1-B program is all about importing cheap labor, period. In other words, reducing costs. In many areas programmers are in high demand, so much so that it is worth it for many programmers to constantly learn new skills to stay in the game. The H1-B is all about getting a steady supply of 3-5 year programmers at 50-75K rather than paying citizens 75-100K. I'm not sure how the hefty requirements of the investor visa fits the Y Combinator model. It could create exploitation issues if not handled properly. One could imagine the investors putting the money up but that changes the dynamic of ownership. I believe the investor visa can be satisfied with job creation or money but then there's the issue of minimum wage laws, founders typically work at a loss since they own the company. I've always felt our immigration law is absurd with respect to graduate students. I think a green card ought to be attached to an advanced degree so that these folks will stay here, enter the work force unencumbered in order to compete fully and start paying taxes immediately, raising families, etc.. Instead we try to keep them out whilst encouraging small businesses to hire illegal immigrants with poor skills thereby creating resentment over access to public services. Sorry to rant, it's a touchy subject.

abstractbill 17y ago
The H1-B is all about getting a steady supply of 3-5 year programmers at 50-75K rather than paying citizens 75-100K. When my last startup got acquired, it was small enough that the acquiring company just convinced us all to move from London to Silicon Valley. Some of us decided to stay permanently, and the company got us H1-Bs and put us on the Green Card process. I'm pretty sure all of us were making more than $100K. Having been on the H1-B process, I just don't believe what you said makes sense. The visa process costs the sponsoring enough time and money that it really doesn't seem worth using it to hire cheaper people.
- bitdiddle 17y ago
  I would suspect your case is not so typical. In fact the costs are such that companies like IBM and GE can bring programmers in from overseas, ostensibly for training purposes, but in fact for working on projects in the US. I've been on the hiring side of this, having paid "body shops" 100-130/hr. for talented folks who were always eager to jump ship for even just a steady 80-90K per year. Those brought in by the large outfits knew they could literally jump ship if someone were to obtain an H1-B for them. I've also witnessed the green card "process" first hand within my own family. The numbers don't lie, programmers working in the same job while waiting for their green cards are paid consistently far less than the legal cost would warrant. Mind you my experiences were all from the 1998-2004 time period, things may have changed since. Back then the body shops were grabbing the lion's share of the visas when the quota opened up annually.

abstractbill 17y ago

The H1-B is all about getting a steady supply of 3-5 year programmers at 50-75K rather than paying citizens 75-100K. When my last startup got acquired, it was small enough that the acquiring company just convinced us all to move from London to Silicon Valley. Some of us decided to stay permanently, and the company got us H1-Bs and put us on the Green Card process. I'm pretty sure all of us were making more than $100K. Having been on the H1-B process, I just don't believe what you said makes sense. The visa process costs the sponsoring enough time and money that it really doesn't seem worth using it to hire cheaper people.

bitdiddle 17y ago
I would suspect your case is not so typical. In fact the costs are such that companies like IBM and GE can bring programmers in from overseas, ostensibly for training purposes, but in fact for working on projects in the US. I've been on the hiring side of this, having paid "body shops" 100-130/hr. for talented folks who were always eager to jump ship for even just a steady 80-90K per year. Those brought in by the large outfits knew they could literally jump ship if someone were to obtain an H1-B for them. I've also witnessed the green card "process" first hand within my own family. The numbers don't lie, programmers working in the same job while waiting for their green cards are paid consistently far less than the legal cost would warrant. Mind you my experiences were all from the 1998-2004 time period, things may have changed since. Back then the body shops were grabbing the lion's share of the visas when the quota opened up annually.