4 ms·

(Edited to change "first-wave" to "second-wave.") A quote springs to mind: “Can’t you see this game is crooked?” Devol asked. “Sure I know it, George,” sighed

(Edited to change "first-wave" to "second-wave.") A quote springs to mind: “Can’t you see this game is crooked?” Devol asked. “Sure I know it, George,” sighed Bill with resignation, “but it’s the only game in town.” Prior to the rise of feminism, a male dominated workplace was arguably the only game in town. From talking to my wife, the notion that you're obligated by feminism and by your sex/gender to pursue success seems distinctly second-wave feminism, whereas I suspect the likes of third-wave folks' opinions are a lot less uniform. (As an aside, I find these differences kind of fascinating. Supposedly the word "ladies" carries different connotations depending on your generation; older generations are likely to see it as patronizing, whereas younger ones are likely to see it less negatively.) Anyway, the bottom line is that as far as modern feminism is concerned, it's more important that you are empowered to choose whether you want to climb the ladder; be a stay-at-home parent; have a child without being married, etc. It's more about empowerment of choice, for women in particular but for individuals in general (e.g. more time at home for parents, better childcare options, and so on, would all improve quality of life for men and women).

davidkatz 14y ago
That's exactly as it should be, but not everyone has jumped on that wagon yet. I've heard a "a woman mostly taking care of her kids at home could not be truly happy" sentiment expressed often enough.
- wonderzombie 14y ago
  This is true. There's a ton of debate about it in third-wave feminist circles from what I can tell. There's a Catch-22 goes something like: as more women join the workplace, they act as role models and (for lack of a better term) envoys. If/when little girls see women doing things, it'll seem that much more realistic a choice. But if feminism is about choice, doesn't that limit your choices by declaring that staying at home to raise kids is in somehow immoral or degrading? It's also difficult because how do you distinguish your example woman, who made a choice, with a woman who did not have the choice, for (e.g.) socioeconomic reasons? How do you distinguish between someone who felt empowered to make a choice and someone who was socialized to accede to others' needs first? In general I'd probably be skeptical of someone who said that raising children was more fulfilling than any other pursuit, but what's more important than that is that there should be a choice in the first place. Quite frequently there isn't.

davidkatz 14y ago

That's exactly as it should be, but not everyone has jumped on that wagon yet. I've heard a "a woman mostly taking care of her kids at home could not be truly happy" sentiment expressed often enough.

wonderzombie 14y ago
This is true. There's a ton of debate about it in third-wave feminist circles from what I can tell. There's a Catch-22 goes something like: as more women join the workplace, they act as role models and (for lack of a better term) envoys. If/when little girls see women doing things, it'll seem that much more realistic a choice. But if feminism is about choice, doesn't that limit your choices by declaring that staying at home to raise kids is in somehow immoral or degrading? It's also difficult because how do you distinguish your example woman, who made a choice, with a woman who did not have the choice, for (e.g.) socioeconomic reasons? How do you distinguish between someone who felt empowered to make a choice and someone who was socialized to accede to others' needs first? In general I'd probably be skeptical of someone who said that raising children was more fulfilling than any other pursuit, but what's more important than that is that there should be a choice in the first place. Quite frequently there isn't.