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"We know there are people who want to take away our freedoms." The terrorists want my life; its the government that wants my freedom. I'll keep my freedom, tha

"We know there are people who want to take away our freedoms." The terrorists want my life; its the government that wants my freedom. I'll keep my freedom, thank you, and take my chances with my life. My chance of being injured by terrorism is infinitesimal compared to the very real chance of losing civil rights and privacy I value. As Patrick Henry said: "Give me Liberty, or Give me Death!"

RyanMcGreal 14y ago
Quibble: the terrorists don't want your life, they want your attention, and more specifically, your panicky attention. Political reactions like Bloomberg's help keep the terrorism availability cascade rolling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_cascade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_cascade They are just about exactly the wrong way to respond. There are a few important facts about terrorism that should put our fear in context: * Terrorists tend to be spectacularly inept. * Terrorist organizations tend to collapse over time, through various combinations of frustration, attrition and overreach. * The methods of terrorism tend to be highly ineffective at killing people. On the same day that the Boston bombings killed three people, approximately 40 Americans country-wide were murdered for various non-terrorist reasons. Also on the same day, approximately 140 Americans died via guns (this includes suicides, which make up two-thirds of the total, and accidental deaths). We can keep going: for example, approximately 85 Americans are killed every day in automobile accidents. My point is that the fear that we feel about terrorism is utterly disproportionate to the risk that we will experience it - especially compared to the kinds of things we rarely think about but really should worry about. By no means do I mean to dismiss or demean or make light of the trauma, injury and death experienced by the people who experienced the Boston Marathon terror attack. However, it would only compound the tragedy if we allow such an event to transform our civilization from one that esteems liberty, autonomy and privacy into one that sacrifices those things for needless expedience.
- voidlogic 14y ago
  >>Quibble: the terrorists don't want your life, they want your attention, and more specifically, your panicky attention. Silly quibble- same difference, there are few things better for getting "panicky attention" than randomly taking lives or maiming people. I agree with your other points.
  - vbuterin 14y ago
    Not really. If a maximizing murder has a choice between a quiet but effective means of killing people and a loud but ineffective one, they will go for the former. A terrorist will go for the latter. Guess which category bombs fall into.
    - voidlogic 14y ago
      >>maximizing murder has a choice between a quiet but effective means of killing people and a loud but ineffective one Not really, it has nothing to do with being effective or loud, they go for the option that spreads the most terror... For example poison city water supply or send letter bomb. The flasher option here spreads less terror. The goal of a terrorist is to force political change though terror.
- cpeterso 14y ago
  After September 11, I've always wondered why al-Qaeda did not continue to fuel the nation's panic with frequent small attacks. Look at the response that two guys made in Boston with small, homemade bombs (now labeled "weapons of mass destruction" in the press). Imagine the fear and economic problems terrorists could create bombing the SF Bay Bridge, the BART trans-bay tube, or NYC subways. Those targets would be much easier and more economically damaging targets than commercial airplanes.
  - agwa 14y ago
    The answer is probably quite simple: when it comes down to it, the "terrorists" are far less potent than the government and the media have led us to believe.
kruhft 14y ago
"Give Me The Ability To Post On An Internet Message Board About How Displeased I Am About How My Country Is Being Run, or Give Me Death!"
- kruhft 14y ago
  Vive la Revolution!
  - kruhft 14y ago
    Help, I'm feeling repressed!
SkyMarshal 14y ago
>My chance of being injured by terrorism is infinitesimal to the very real chance of losing civil rights and privacy I value. It's remotely small compared to your chance of dying in a traffic accident too [1], and we don't give up our freedoms for that. Either people making cognitive bias misjudgements [2], or intentionally manipulating them. [1]: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristics_in_judgment_and_decision_making https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristics_in_judgment_and_dec...
russell 14y ago
Patrick Henry is a little strong for this day and age, but "Give me liberty or give me 0.000001% chance of death", works perfectly well for me.

RyanMcGreal 14y ago

Quibble: the terrorists don't want your life, they want your attention, and more specifically, your panicky attention. Political reactions like Bloomberg's help keep the terrorism availability cascade rolling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_cascade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_cascade They are just about exactly the wrong way to respond. There are a few important facts about terrorism that should put our fear in context: * Terrorists tend to be spectacularly inept. * Terrorist organizations tend to collapse over time, through various combinations of frustration, attrition and overreach. * The methods of terrorism tend to be highly ineffective at killing people. On the same day that the Boston bombings killed three people, approximately 40 Americans country-wide were murdered for various non-terrorist reasons. Also on the same day, approximately 140 Americans died via guns (this includes suicides, which make up two-thirds of the total, and accidental deaths). We can keep going: for example, approximately 85 Americans are killed every day in automobile accidents. My point is that the fear that we feel about terrorism is utterly disproportionate to the risk that we will experience it - especially compared to the kinds of things we rarely think about but really should worry about. By no means do I mean to dismiss or demean or make light of the trauma, injury and death experienced by the people who experienced the Boston Marathon terror attack. However, it would only compound the tragedy if we allow such an event to transform our civilization from one that esteems liberty, autonomy and privacy into one that sacrifices those things for needless expedience.

voidlogic 14y ago
>>Quibble: the terrorists don't want your life, they want your attention, and more specifically, your panicky attention. Silly quibble- same difference, there are few things better for getting "panicky attention" than randomly taking lives or maiming people. I agree with your other points.
- vbuterin 14y ago
  Not really. If a maximizing murder has a choice between a quiet but effective means of killing people and a loud but ineffective one, they will go for the former. A terrorist will go for the latter. Guess which category bombs fall into.
  - voidlogic 14y ago
    >>maximizing murder has a choice between a quiet but effective means of killing people and a loud but ineffective one Not really, it has nothing to do with being effective or loud, they go for the option that spreads the most terror... For example poison city water supply or send letter bomb. The flasher option here spreads less terror. The goal of a terrorist is to force political change though terror.
cpeterso 14y ago
After September 11, I've always wondered why al-Qaeda did not continue to fuel the nation's panic with frequent small attacks. Look at the response that two guys made in Boston with small, homemade bombs (now labeled "weapons of mass destruction" in the press). Imagine the fear and economic problems terrorists could create bombing the SF Bay Bridge, the BART trans-bay tube, or NYC subways. Those targets would be much easier and more economically damaging targets than commercial airplanes.
- agwa 14y ago
  The answer is probably quite simple: when it comes down to it, the "terrorists" are far less potent than the government and the media have led us to believe.

kruhft 14y ago

"Give Me The Ability To Post On An Internet Message Board About How Displeased I Am About How My Country Is Being Run, or Give Me Death!"

kruhft 14y ago
Vive la Revolution!
- kruhft 14y ago
  Help, I'm feeling repressed!

SkyMarshal 14y ago

>My chance of being injured by terrorism is infinitesimal to the very real chance of losing civil rights and privacy I value. It's remotely small compared to your chance of dying in a traffic accident too [1], and we don't give up our freedoms for that. Either people making cognitive bias misjudgements [2], or intentionally manipulating them. [1]: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristics_in_judgment_and_decision_making https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristics_in_judgment_and_dec...

russell 14y ago

Patrick Henry is a little strong for this day and age, but "Give me liberty or give me 0.000001% chance of death", works perfectly well for me.