6 ms·

Most workplaces block certain websites anyway so I don't see why they could not do the same thing for inmates. Maybe they shouldn't be using Tor, but I don't se

Most workplaces block certain websites anyway so I don't see why they could not do the same thing for inmates. Maybe they shouldn't be using Tor, but I don't see why Wikipedia is a problem.

MichaelApproved 14y ago
It is ridiculous how some dangerous inmates manage to communicate with the outside world and continue to commit crimes through their network. By allowing them to use Wikipedia, they can leave coded messages as orders for fellow gang members. This happens with traditional mail and you can bet it'll be more wide spread with Internet access. I believe prisoners need the ability to learn and improve themselves while in prison but the problem is much more complicated than ban tor and allow Wikipedia.
- ffffruit 14y ago
  Give them access to a static, read-only dump of Wikipedia hosted on an internal prison server. Update said dump once every month.
  - lostlogin 14y ago
    Knowing nothing about this sort of thing, is this a copyright issue?
    - jeroen 14y ago
      No: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Comm...
    - dredmorbius 14y ago
      Not only isn't it a copyright issue, but Wikipedia gives you the download link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download ... though using torrents is generally recommended to reduce server load and bandwidth.
  - MichaelApproved 14y ago
    You'd also want to limit it to the most vetted and monitored articles to prevent someone from the outside from leaving coded messages in articles. I figure the more popular articles could spot strange updates and eliminate them. There's also nothing urgent about the access they get. Articles could be restricted to 1 or 2 years old to further prevent the transfer of timely information.
    - ffffruit 14y ago
      Sure, the process in my mind is the same as when they are given a TV. There is some level of filtering on what information they can obtain and a time delay of when they obtain it. Regardless there is so much information out there that even if you drop entire categories from a Wikipedia dump, it would still be left with a substantial ammount of knowledge for inmates to learn from.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - hackinthebochs 14y ago
      Honestly, is this really that big of a concern? This sounds like something that may be necessary for the OBLs or <murderous drug lord>s of the world. But in general, this level of paranoia about being able to communicate with the outside world is just insane. It only serves as an easy excuse to exert an obscene level of control over these people's lives.
      - MichaelApproved 14y ago
        From what I've seen (in documentaries and the show lockup raw) violent offenders will try to harm the families of prison personnel and others by sending and receiving orders. It's a real problem. It's not as easy as restricting access from just these people because they can force other inmates with Internet access to do their bidding. Its possible that lower security prisoners can be treated differently. edit: typo
    - vacri 14y ago
      Isn't worrying about coded info coming into the prison a bit silly, given that inmates have visiting rights? What kind of code could you put into a wikipedia article that you couldn't provide in a face-to-face?
  - salgernon 14y ago
    Give them a book. Paper.
  - melvinmt 14y ago
    Sure, but what marketable skill are you able to learn with Wikipedia alone?
  - untog 14y ago
    What about the articles that teach you how to make moonshine? Or a shiv? I'm only half-joking, I'm sure the prison authorities would be very concerned with this stuff.
- livnev 14y ago
  Rather than a dump on a prison server, it would be easier to get Wikipedia to block the prison IP range from editing. I believe that some schools (high schools/secondary schools, not universities) do this due to high rates of vandalism.
  - piqufoh 14y ago
    That wouldn't stop editing through a proxy.
    - jacquesm 14y ago
      You'd have to have someone white-listing that proxy. And I don't see that happening.
  - jrochkind1 14y ago
    The "prison IP range"? What's that? There are literally thousands of prisons in the US (4500. We've got more than any other country in the world, go us.) Wikipedia certainly is not interested in the task of trying to track the IP addresses of each of these prisons. (Also, I can guarantee you that the vast majority of these prisons are served by under-resourced barely-competent IT departments.) (Also, it may not even be possible to distinguish between 'inmate' IP addresses, and IP addresses used by staff, or even staff working for the department of corrections not even physically at the prison. Why? Because there's no such thing as an 'inmate IP address', because right now inmates aren't allowed to use the internet at all. So you're asking under-resourced barely competent IT departments to set up a new IP address allocation regime. At 4500 different prisons.)
    - winter_blue 14y ago
      I'm just wondering: is the high incarceration rate in the U.S. somehow connected to it's multi-ethnic makeup? In Europe, and other places/countries with more homogeneous ethnic makeups, the incarceration doesn't seem to be that high. Scandinavia, for example.
      - 14y ago
- nnq 14y ago
  How hard it would be to develop a patched browser (on a secured os, plus a firewall of course) that would only allow "read only web access" (not form submitting, no way to manually go to an url by entering it) to a limited number of domains? I guess the number of dangerous inmates with advanced tech skills or outside resources is very low, so you could separate these high risk guys from the rest of the pack. There's the possibility of high risk guys using the low-risk guys to communicate for them, but really, I don't think there are that many "criminal masterminds" out there... I mean the really dangerous ones are either in high security prisons, or they are too smart to get into prison anyhow.
  - bonaldi 14y ago
    Even a GET is a signal. As henchman on the outside I can create a page, linked from my wikipedia personal page or on some otherwise innocuous page, that says something like "Boss, should I off Big Tony? Click here for Yes, Click here for No" and wait to see which link he clicks.
    - nickzoic 14y ago
      Using a GET for this is okay, because `kill` is idempotent.
  - dredmorbius 14y ago
    Ask North Korea. Generally: the answer is to provide a web proxy or mirror with restrictions as to available content. And likely highly logged access.
  - Spooky23 14y ago
    Very hard in a general sense. Many prisons are giving people walled garden access to legal libraries and video conferencing, but nothing else. I've done some peripheral work for corrections type people -- they don't adopt paranoid thought processes for nothing. The average drug convict is not a criminal mastermind, but he is a cog in a criminal enterprise that is controlled by smart people. Drug and gang enterprises are real businesses, and they provide support and resources to their employees. They are capable of anything.

Most workplaces block certain websites anyway so I don't see why they could not do the same thing for inmates. Maybe they shouldn't be using Tor, but I don't see why Wikipedia is a problem.

MichaelApproved 14y ago

It is ridiculous how some dangerous inmates manage to communicate with the outside world and continue to commit crimes through their network. By allowing them to use Wikipedia, they can leave coded messages as orders for fellow gang members. This happens with traditional mail and you can bet it'll be more wide spread with Internet access. I believe prisoners need the ability to learn and improve themselves while in prison but the problem is much more complicated than ban tor and allow Wikipedia.

ffffruit 14y ago
Give them access to a static, read-only dump of Wikipedia hosted on an internal prison server. Update said dump once every month.
- lostlogin 14y ago
  Knowing nothing about this sort of thing, is this a copyright issue?
  - jeroen 14y ago
    No: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Comm...
  - dredmorbius 14y ago
    Not only isn't it a copyright issue, but Wikipedia gives you the download link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download ... though using torrents is generally recommended to reduce server load and bandwidth.
- MichaelApproved 14y ago
  You'd also want to limit it to the most vetted and monitored articles to prevent someone from the outside from leaving coded messages in articles. I figure the more popular articles could spot strange updates and eliminate them. There's also nothing urgent about the access they get. Articles could be restricted to 1 or 2 years old to further prevent the transfer of timely information.
  - ffffruit 14y ago
    Sure, the process in my mind is the same as when they are given a TV. There is some level of filtering on what information they can obtain and a time delay of when they obtain it. Regardless there is so much information out there that even if you drop entire categories from a Wikipedia dump, it would still be left with a substantial ammount of knowledge for inmates to learn from.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - hackinthebochs 14y ago
    Honestly, is this really that big of a concern? This sounds like something that may be necessary for the OBLs or <murderous drug lord>s of the world. But in general, this level of paranoia about being able to communicate with the outside world is just insane. It only serves as an easy excuse to exert an obscene level of control over these people's lives.
    - MichaelApproved 14y ago
      From what I've seen (in documentaries and the show lockup raw) violent offenders will try to harm the families of prison personnel and others by sending and receiving orders. It's a real problem. It's not as easy as restricting access from just these people because they can force other inmates with Internet access to do their bidding. Its possible that lower security prisoners can be treated differently. edit: typo
  - vacri 14y ago
    Isn't worrying about coded info coming into the prison a bit silly, given that inmates have visiting rights? What kind of code could you put into a wikipedia article that you couldn't provide in a face-to-face?
- salgernon 14y ago
  Give them a book. Paper.
- melvinmt 14y ago
  Sure, but what marketable skill are you able to learn with Wikipedia alone?
- untog 14y ago
  What about the articles that teach you how to make moonshine? Or a shiv? I'm only half-joking, I'm sure the prison authorities would be very concerned with this stuff.
livnev 14y ago
Rather than a dump on a prison server, it would be easier to get Wikipedia to block the prison IP range from editing. I believe that some schools (high schools/secondary schools, not universities) do this due to high rates of vandalism.
- piqufoh 14y ago
  That wouldn't stop editing through a proxy.
  - jacquesm 14y ago
    You'd have to have someone white-listing that proxy. And I don't see that happening.
- jrochkind1 14y ago
  The "prison IP range"? What's that? There are literally thousands of prisons in the US (4500. We've got more than any other country in the world, go us.) Wikipedia certainly is not interested in the task of trying to track the IP addresses of each of these prisons. (Also, I can guarantee you that the vast majority of these prisons are served by under-resourced barely-competent IT departments.) (Also, it may not even be possible to distinguish between 'inmate' IP addresses, and IP addresses used by staff, or even staff working for the department of corrections not even physically at the prison. Why? Because there's no such thing as an 'inmate IP address', because right now inmates aren't allowed to use the internet at all. So you're asking under-resourced barely competent IT departments to set up a new IP address allocation regime. At 4500 different prisons.)
  - winter_blue 14y ago
    I'm just wondering: is the high incarceration rate in the U.S. somehow connected to it's multi-ethnic makeup? In Europe, and other places/countries with more homogeneous ethnic makeups, the incarceration doesn't seem to be that high. Scandinavia, for example.
    - 14y ago
nnq 14y ago
How hard it would be to develop a patched browser (on a secured os, plus a firewall of course) that would only allow "read only web access" (not form submitting, no way to manually go to an url by entering it) to a limited number of domains? I guess the number of dangerous inmates with advanced tech skills or outside resources is very low, so you could separate these high risk guys from the rest of the pack. There's the possibility of high risk guys using the low-risk guys to communicate for them, but really, I don't think there are that many "criminal masterminds" out there... I mean the really dangerous ones are either in high security prisons, or they are too smart to get into prison anyhow.
- bonaldi 14y ago
  Even a GET is a signal. As henchman on the outside I can create a page, linked from my wikipedia personal page or on some otherwise innocuous page, that says something like "Boss, should I off Big Tony? Click here for Yes, Click here for No" and wait to see which link he clicks.
  - nickzoic 14y ago
    Using a GET for this is okay, because `kill` is idempotent.
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  Ask North Korea. Generally: the answer is to provide a web proxy or mirror with restrictions as to available content. And likely highly logged access.
- Spooky23 14y ago
  Very hard in a general sense. Many prisons are giving people walled garden access to legal libraries and video conferencing, but nothing else. I've done some peripheral work for corrections type people -- they don't adopt paranoid thought processes for nothing. The average drug convict is not a criminal mastermind, but he is a cog in a criminal enterprise that is controlled by smart people. Drug and gang enterprises are real businesses, and they provide support and resources to their employees. They are capable of anything.