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While I agree with you that walkthroughs/tutorials/tours, or whatever you want to call them, are not the end goal of a particular user design, the idea that you

While I agree with you that walkthroughs/tutorials/tours, or whatever you want to call them, are not the end goal of a particular user design, the idea that you could create a design that is so elegant and perfect that it doesn't require any kind of instruction is absurd. Sure not all sites need it, but the option is out there for people who don't have the ability to hire a UX expert, and whose sites change frequently. I was literally just on Facebook and was taken through at least three different tutorials. IF you can hire a ux person to make your site not need a tutorial, then all the power to you. For the record, I founded Tutorialize (https://tutorialize.me https://tutorialize.me), and I'm constantly watching this market landscape change. I've met multiple people who knew guys from Kera.io, and though I didn't get to meet them, they definitely seemed like cool dudes. I'm sure the core team with come back with something great soon enough. Peace!

tzaman 13y ago
I'm not saying workflows don't require instructions, quite the opposite. I am saying though, that these instructions don't need to be hand-holding tours, they can be subtle hints in the workflow, in terms of proper copy, icons, labels, etc. And as I discovered with the UX guy, it's not that difficult to perform user testing on your own, just sit down with clients and see them complete a certain task while thinking out loud along the way. It works wonders. That being said, I'm by no means trying to discredit what you're trying to do - there certainly are use cases for products like Kera, otherwise you guys wouldn't work on it.
- maxcameron 13y ago
  I love this thread - it really encapsulates the debate around the product that was ever-present for us. Turns out it was fairly controversial... One thing is for sure though - the problem of "user onboarding" and conversion exists, and people are actively trying to solve it. Hopefully the folks from iridize, tutorialize.me, walkme, taurus, etc etc will be able to take up the reigns and build a scalable business around it.
- lshemesh 13y ago
  Totally with you! All too often I hear the blanket statement thrown around that you should never use a tutorial and instead focus your energy and time in creating a really elegant UI. We live in a world where things have to happen quickly, where reinventing the wheel is startup failure 101, where you can get a full web app running in under 10 minutes. Build the tutorial, and then figure out your UI when you have time and money. Not true for all cases, of course.

tzaman 13y ago

I'm not saying workflows don't require instructions, quite the opposite. I am saying though, that these instructions don't need to be hand-holding tours, they can be subtle hints in the workflow, in terms of proper copy, icons, labels, etc. And as I discovered with the UX guy, it's not that difficult to perform user testing on your own, just sit down with clients and see them complete a certain task while thinking out loud along the way. It works wonders. That being said, I'm by no means trying to discredit what you're trying to do - there certainly are use cases for products like Kera, otherwise you guys wouldn't work on it.

maxcameron 13y ago
I love this thread - it really encapsulates the debate around the product that was ever-present for us. Turns out it was fairly controversial... One thing is for sure though - the problem of "user onboarding" and conversion exists, and people are actively trying to solve it. Hopefully the folks from iridize, tutorialize.me, walkme, taurus, etc etc will be able to take up the reigns and build a scalable business around it.
lshemesh 13y ago
Totally with you! All too often I hear the blanket statement thrown around that you should never use a tutorial and instead focus your energy and time in creating a really elegant UI. We live in a world where things have to happen quickly, where reinventing the wheel is startup failure 101, where you can get a full web app running in under 10 minutes. Build the tutorial, and then figure out your UI when you have time and money. Not true for all cases, of course.