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So are you saying that if we don't count the innovation that Google has been doing, Google is not innovative at all. Btw, here are some Google products that it

by dannyr 14y ago

So are you saying that if we don't count the innovation that Google has been doing, Google is not innovative at all. Btw, here are some Google products that it continues to iterate: Google Maps YouTube Android Wallet Google+ Go AngularJS Shopping However, if you don't want to count these ones, I guess you're right that most of Google's services have stagnated. #sarcasm

lobster_johnson 14y ago
No, I'm saying that Google is innovating very little. Indeed, it's primarily innovating in areas not related to the web (which the article is about). Search, Maps,YouTube have not evolved much the last few years; the last true innovation was Street View, and the last truly useful addition to Search was the fact database integration. Android is basically just following in Apple's footsteps. Wallet I don't know anything about, so I can't comment, Shopping looks to me like it's still the terrible old shopping search that isn't useful for anything. Google+ is basically a reimplementation of Facebook. Go may have been created at Google, but it's really the work of Pike and Thompson; according to insiders, the internal language at Google is still mainly Java and C++; and I wouldn't call it innovation, exactly, since there is nothing innovative about neither the parts or the whole; rather, it's a very incremental evolution of the general-purpose computer language tradition of C plus Oberon/Modula. In other words, your sarcasm is wildly misplaced, sir.
- gnur 14y ago
  Too bad you are so hard trying to make your point you lose connection with reality. Android, in its core, is so entirely different then iOS that saying "following in Apple's footsteps" is just wrong. What has changed in recent major (!!) iOS updates? Twitter & Facebook integration.. Seriously? While Android 4 revamped the entire user interface, streamlined ui & ux and allowed for buttonless phones (apart from power). Also, Google Maps recently added vector based maps, a great addition to the previous bitmap based maps. Search has added countless quick results like instant currency conversion, quick answers to questions and instant results. Gmail has litteraly changed web based mail and still continues to do so. I do agree on youtube & go. Go isn't a revolution, it is one of the most boring languages ever. Which is one of it major plusses over "exciting" languages like ruby & python. Also, it isn't an offcial Google product, so stomping Go to the ground really shows how you are just bashing away. Please don't say innovation has stopped when it clearly hasn't.
  - lobster_johnson 14y ago
    Those are not innovations, those are incremental improvements. (If you want to call all minor improvements innovation then, well, everyone's innovative.) Innovations are new products and new ideas. Of course Android is following in Apple's footsteps; Apple came first, after all, and established everything that Android has since also implemented. Whatever Google is doing, it's an incremental improvement on that revolutionary approach to smartphones. Google Glass is innovative, possibly even revolutionary; but Android isn't. > Google Maps recently added vector based maps I doubt users notice that. (I'm a developer and I haven't noticed.) (Also, didn't Apple do this first, with the Maps app?) I'm sure there is lots of technical, low-visibility innovation happening at Google, but that's not what we are talking about here. > Search has added countless quick results Again, miniscule, evolutionary improvements. > Gmail has litteraly changed web based mail and still continues to do so. Gmail launched in 2004 and has hardly changed since then. Sure, it got priority inbox (a minor feature, hardly the revolutionary feature they claimed), GTalk and themes. Not really innovations in any meaningful sense. Gmail is possibly the worst example of all, since everything after 2004 has essentially been polish. > Also, [Go] isn't an offcial Google product, so stomping Go to the ground really shows how you are just bashing away. The parent was the one who mentioned Go, I merely responded.
    - zero_intp 14y ago
      I would argue that an open smartphone ecosystem is innovative. Not original, but innovative. Google Now IS innovative. Google's method for voice recognition is certainly innovative, as are the myriad ways in which they have implemented that core technology. Google voice (grandcentral) was certainly innovative; the calling system and the text transcription in most specific. My main problem with your exchange is my perception of you constantly moving the goalposts. I don't see how you can categorically reject 'technical, low-visibility innovation' unless your argument is presupposed. Furthermore, most of these achievements are acquire/hires, and we have seen the big G push these purchased assets into new features or products. I would argue that this capability IS the basic facility to innovate the marketplace. (gmail has indeed revolutionized webmail, both in size of free storage and in the mailbox organizational methods)
- dannyr 14y ago
  "Go may have been created at Google, but it's really the work of Pike and Thompson;" Ok, so products created within Google by Google employees don't count? What other restrictions do you have?
  - lobster_johnson 14y ago
    Go is not a Google product. That was my point.
- dannyr 14y ago
  I could pick out misinformation for every word in your reply. Pretty much every product you said have not evolved is continually improving. You know I say that? Because I USE them. I'm 100% sure you have not spent time using these products.
  - lobster_johnson 14y ago
    Of course they are improving. Improving alone is not innovation.

by dannyr 14y ago

lobster_johnson 14y ago

No, I'm saying that Google is innovating very little. Indeed, it's primarily innovating in areas not related to the web (which the article is about). Search, Maps,YouTube have not evolved much the last few years; the last true innovation was Street View, and the last truly useful addition to Search was the fact database integration. Android is basically just following in Apple's footsteps. Wallet I don't know anything about, so I can't comment, Shopping looks to me like it's still the terrible old shopping search that isn't useful for anything. Google+ is basically a reimplementation of Facebook. Go may have been created at Google, but it's really the work of Pike and Thompson; according to insiders, the internal language at Google is still mainly Java and C++; and I wouldn't call it innovation, exactly, since there is nothing innovative about neither the parts or the whole; rather, it's a very incremental evolution of the general-purpose computer language tradition of C plus Oberon/Modula. In other words, your sarcasm is wildly misplaced, sir.

gnur 14y ago
Too bad you are so hard trying to make your point you lose connection with reality. Android, in its core, is so entirely different then iOS that saying "following in Apple's footsteps" is just wrong. What has changed in recent major (!!) iOS updates? Twitter & Facebook integration.. Seriously? While Android 4 revamped the entire user interface, streamlined ui & ux and allowed for buttonless phones (apart from power). Also, Google Maps recently added vector based maps, a great addition to the previous bitmap based maps. Search has added countless quick results like instant currency conversion, quick answers to questions and instant results. Gmail has litteraly changed web based mail and still continues to do so. I do agree on youtube & go. Go isn't a revolution, it is one of the most boring languages ever. Which is one of it major plusses over "exciting" languages like ruby & python. Also, it isn't an offcial Google product, so stomping Go to the ground really shows how you are just bashing away. Please don't say innovation has stopped when it clearly hasn't.
- lobster_johnson 14y ago
  Those are not innovations, those are incremental improvements. (If you want to call all minor improvements innovation then, well, everyone's innovative.) Innovations are new products and new ideas. Of course Android is following in Apple's footsteps; Apple came first, after all, and established everything that Android has since also implemented. Whatever Google is doing, it's an incremental improvement on that revolutionary approach to smartphones. Google Glass is innovative, possibly even revolutionary; but Android isn't. > Google Maps recently added vector based maps I doubt users notice that. (I'm a developer and I haven't noticed.) (Also, didn't Apple do this first, with the Maps app?) I'm sure there is lots of technical, low-visibility innovation happening at Google, but that's not what we are talking about here. > Search has added countless quick results Again, miniscule, evolutionary improvements. > Gmail has litteraly changed web based mail and still continues to do so. Gmail launched in 2004 and has hardly changed since then. Sure, it got priority inbox (a minor feature, hardly the revolutionary feature they claimed), GTalk and themes. Not really innovations in any meaningful sense. Gmail is possibly the worst example of all, since everything after 2004 has essentially been polish. > Also, [Go] isn't an offcial Google product, so stomping Go to the ground really shows how you are just bashing away. The parent was the one who mentioned Go, I merely responded.
  - zero_intp 14y ago
    I would argue that an open smartphone ecosystem is innovative. Not original, but innovative. Google Now IS innovative. Google's method for voice recognition is certainly innovative, as are the myriad ways in which they have implemented that core technology. Google voice (grandcentral) was certainly innovative; the calling system and the text transcription in most specific. My main problem with your exchange is my perception of you constantly moving the goalposts. I don't see how you can categorically reject 'technical, low-visibility innovation' unless your argument is presupposed. Furthermore, most of these achievements are acquire/hires, and we have seen the big G push these purchased assets into new features or products. I would argue that this capability IS the basic facility to innovate the marketplace. (gmail has indeed revolutionized webmail, both in size of free storage and in the mailbox organizational methods)
dannyr 14y ago
"Go may have been created at Google, but it's really the work of Pike and Thompson;" Ok, so products created within Google by Google employees don't count? What other restrictions do you have?
- lobster_johnson 14y ago
  Go is not a Google product. That was my point.
dannyr 14y ago
I could pick out misinformation for every word in your reply. Pretty much every product you said have not evolved is continually improving. You know I say that? Because I USE them. I'm 100% sure you have not spent time using these products.
- lobster_johnson 14y ago
  Of course they are improving. Improving alone is not innovation.