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> The whole law is just an annoyance, nothing else. This is not true. It's about preventing impulsive suicides, not premeditated ones. If a depressed person is

by Osmium 14y ago

> The whole law is just an annoyance, nothing else. This is not true. It's about preventing impulsive suicides, not premeditated ones. If a depressed person is having an episode and all they have in their house is 16 pills, then it removes the opportunity: maybe by the time they've make it to the shops and buy more, the moment will have passed, and a life would be saved. It's been shown time and time again that you can reduce absolute suicide rates by removing opportunities like this. If I remember correctly, there was something similar involving gas ovens, though I can't find the reference now. Guns, bridges, etc. are all similar too. When it comes down to it, if someone's determined enough to kill themselves, they will, but the truth is most people aren't and doing things like only selling small quantities of pills really can prevent suicides.

DanBC 14y ago
Strongly agree with your post. About gas ovens: There's less carbon monoxide in modern gas delivery. (http://io9.com/5959303/why-have-people-stopped-committing-suicide-with-gas http://io9.com/5959303/why-have-people-stopped-committing-su...)
- Osmium 14y ago
  Thanks! That was the one I was thinking of. >The switch from coal gas to natural gas also had one unexpected effect. During the ‘50s and ‘60s, about half of the suicides in Britain were by coal gas. By the ‘70s, when the transition to natural gas was complete, the number of gas suicides had dropped to zero and the overall suicide rate was down a third. Even the suicidal appreciate convenience. If it's too much trouble, as Dorothy Parker said, "You might as well live." Also, regarding my above post (which I can't edit now), I didn't mean to imply that "just" 16 pills was even remotely safe because I'm sure it's not (I'm not a doctor) but the general point stands...
hnriot 14y ago
Rather, it's just another example of the uk becoming more and more of a nanny state.
lucian303 14y ago
Of course, there is no limit to the amount of alcohol one can purchase to lower one's threshold for going from suicidal thought to suicidal action. "Impulsivity and aggression are strongly implicated in suicidal behaviour.18–22 Impulsivity has been related to suicidal and self-destructive behaviours within different psychiatric conditions, including alcohol and substance use disorders, mood disorders, conduct disorder, impulse control disorder, antisocial personality disorder, and borderline personality disorder. Studies have consistently demonstrated that constructs related to aggression and impulsivity confer additional risk for suicidal behaviour among persons with alcohol dependence and other substance misusers.22" -- http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/99/1/57.full http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/99/1/57.full Obviously alcohol causes both impulsivity and aggression. Not to mention, the negative health effects and deaths that are _directly_ attributable to it, but that's a different topic. The reality is, no government actually cares about preventing suicide or decreasing mental illness / increasing mental health. If they did, they would focus more on treating people who are at risk of it rather than putting people on medicines that are known to increase the risk of suicide (opiates, benzodiazepines, SSRI's, SSNRI's, amphetamine (commonly in Adderrall and prescribed to young children for medical conditions (ADD, ADHD) that don't exist), etc. These laws are not just an inconvenience, they serve a real purpose: to make legislators feel good about themselves and to make the people think the legislators are actually working. The former is self deception, the latter treason (at least as practiced here in the US). Addiction is a very easy way to control the population and a method of control employed by governments everywhere, led by the policies of the US. Get them addicted, committed, misinformed, unarmed, and controlled. The new opium wars are civil, use both legal (rx or otc) and illegal drugs as their ammunition, yet are still carefully perpetrated by the governments, and in the last hundred years plus, upon their own people. Yes, we have learned a lot from history. Just enough to repeat its atrocities.
robbiep 14y ago
BBC article following reductions in successful suicides (interestingly it says no reduction in number of overdoses. But we have a pretty good reversal for paracetamol-induced overdose - N-acetyl-Cystine - so they should have a pretty good recovery) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21370910 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21370910
- DanBC 14y ago
  Yes, but it's very important that anyone with an overdose gets treatment as soon as possible, even if they feel no ill effects at that time. Death from paracetamol overdose is by liver failure, and that takes a week or so to happen, but after the first 24 hours there's not much you can do to prevent it apart from liver transplant. Paracetamol overdose is a small number of liver transplants in the UK, but a significant number of the 'super urgent' transplants.
- coolj 14y ago
  > Despite the reduction in deaths from paracetamol, the study found there had been no decline in overdose cases after 1998. Is the attempted-suicide overdose rate in decline? That seems to be the main question as to whether the law helped.

by Osmium 14y ago

DanBC 14y ago

Strongly agree with your post. About gas ovens: There's less carbon monoxide in modern gas delivery. (http://io9.com/5959303/why-have-people-stopped-committing-suicide-with-gas http://io9.com/5959303/why-have-people-stopped-committing-su...)

Osmium 14y ago
Thanks! That was the one I was thinking of. >The switch from coal gas to natural gas also had one unexpected effect. During the ‘50s and ‘60s, about half of the suicides in Britain were by coal gas. By the ‘70s, when the transition to natural gas was complete, the number of gas suicides had dropped to zero and the overall suicide rate was down a third. Even the suicidal appreciate convenience. If it's too much trouble, as Dorothy Parker said, "You might as well live." Also, regarding my above post (which I can't edit now), I didn't mean to imply that "just" 16 pills was even remotely safe because I'm sure it's not (I'm not a doctor) but the general point stands...

hnriot 14y ago

Rather, it's just another example of the uk becoming more and more of a nanny state.

lucian303 14y ago

Of course, there is no limit to the amount of alcohol one can purchase to lower one's threshold for going from suicidal thought to suicidal action. "Impulsivity and aggression are strongly implicated in suicidal behaviour.18–22 Impulsivity has been related to suicidal and self-destructive behaviours within different psychiatric conditions, including alcohol and substance use disorders, mood disorders, conduct disorder, impulse control disorder, antisocial personality disorder, and borderline personality disorder. Studies have consistently demonstrated that constructs related to aggression and impulsivity confer additional risk for suicidal behaviour among persons with alcohol dependence and other substance misusers.22" -- http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/99/1/57.full http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/99/1/57.full Obviously alcohol causes both impulsivity and aggression. Not to mention, the negative health effects and deaths that are _directly_ attributable to it, but that's a different topic. The reality is, no government actually cares about preventing suicide or decreasing mental illness / increasing mental health. If they did, they would focus more on treating people who are at risk of it rather than putting people on medicines that are known to increase the risk of suicide (opiates, benzodiazepines, SSRI's, SSNRI's, amphetamine (commonly in Adderrall and prescribed to young children for medical conditions (ADD, ADHD) that don't exist), etc. These laws are not just an inconvenience, they serve a real purpose: to make legislators feel good about themselves and to make the people think the legislators are actually working. The former is self deception, the latter treason (at least as practiced here in the US). Addiction is a very easy way to control the population and a method of control employed by governments everywhere, led by the policies of the US. Get them addicted, committed, misinformed, unarmed, and controlled. The new opium wars are civil, use both legal (rx or otc) and illegal drugs as their ammunition, yet are still carefully perpetrated by the governments, and in the last hundred years plus, upon their own people. Yes, we have learned a lot from history. Just enough to repeat its atrocities.

robbiep 14y ago

BBC article following reductions in successful suicides (interestingly it says no reduction in number of overdoses. But we have a pretty good reversal for paracetamol-induced overdose - N-acetyl-Cystine - so they should have a pretty good recovery) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21370910 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21370910

DanBC 14y ago
Yes, but it's very important that anyone with an overdose gets treatment as soon as possible, even if they feel no ill effects at that time. Death from paracetamol overdose is by liver failure, and that takes a week or so to happen, but after the first 24 hours there's not much you can do to prevent it apart from liver transplant. Paracetamol overdose is a small number of liver transplants in the UK, but a significant number of the 'super urgent' transplants.
coolj 14y ago
> Despite the reduction in deaths from paracetamol, the study found there had been no decline in overdose cases after 1998. Is the attempted-suicide overdose rate in decline? That seems to be the main question as to whether the law helped.