4 ms·

I don't see how by changing the way you really are or act, and pretending to be impressed or entertained is going to help you make friends? Because, you're not

by dawson 18y ago

I don't see how by changing the way you really are or act, and pretending to be impressed or entertained is going to help you make friends? Because, you're not being "you", and surely that's the whole point? I want people to like me for me, and I want to be friends with people who I sincerely find entertaining and interesting. If you're pretending, well... might as well join Twitter and make yourself feel better with hundreds of followers (Friends?) who don't really give two shits about what you say, if they even read what you're saying (doubtful). If it makes you feel better about yourself... I guess.

briancooley 18y ago
It's called being sociable. Nobody will develop a deep friendship with you in the first few minutes of conversation. On the other hand, you might miss out on potential friendships if you are aloof and off-putting in the first few minutes of interaction. Just get something started and iterate. The relationship may never amount to more than an acquaintance, but at least give it a chance to get off the ground.
mechanical_fish 18y ago
you're not being "you", and surely that's the whole point? You need to be careful with the notion of "just being you". That phrase is based on a specific conception of what "you" means: "You" are a Platonic ideal personality that exists independently of its instantiation, your physical body and its actions are a window on this One True You, and the best modes of expression are the ones through which the One True You is most clearly visible. But this is just a mental model. And it's not always the most useful model. Here's a different model: "You" are a product of your environment as well as your mind. When you're writing on HN you're a different person than when you're writing for Twitter. When you're writing for business you use a different voice than when writing for pleasure. When you make a deliberate effort to smile, to enjoy people and be entertained, you are a different person. You're not necessarily just impersonating a happy and interested person -- you might be surprised to find that you genuinely are happy and interested! You'll have a lot more friends. You'll get better practice at making friends. Various feedback mechanisms will kick in: biological ones, social ones. You'll be a different person than you are when you sit alone in your apartment. There is nothing insincere about having multiple aspects of your personality, cultivating them, and applying different ones in different situations. We all do this. Humans are far too complicated to be constrained by a single persona, and our behavior and mood is conditioned on environment and on training.
- dawson 18y ago
  "There is nothing insincere about having multiple aspects of your personality, cultivating them, and applying different ones in different situations." I agree, and I never said that, I was talking about faking these emotions, pretending to be interested in someone or that they're amusing, when they're in fact not. This is insincere, and it's not being "you".
  - mhb 18y ago
    That's fine. But another aspect of this is that people like other people who are happy. You can choose to make yourself genuinely happier when interacting with someone by smiling. If you learn math in order be better at solving problems, you've created a new smarter you. Is the real you the one who knew less math? In the same way, you can choose to become a happier person who is more appealing to other people.
  - mdakin 18y ago
    Your statement reminds me of one of David Reynolds's concepts discussed in his book _Constructive Living_. Which was an interesting and quick read although somehow a bit unsatisfying. I've not thought about the "why" of that satisfaction point so I can't really recommend (or not) the book other than to say it's a quick read and has some redeeming qualities so it might be worth looking at. Anyway, the actual concept concerns a weakness with the English language that actually impacts the thinking of native English speakers. And I think your thinking is falling into that pattern. The issue is that English blurs the concept of feeling an emotion and the doing of an emotional action. And it's useful to NOT blur those concepts into one thing. Specifically because by doing-X you can actually bring about feeling-X inside yourself. English leads you to believe that your current feeling is somehow decoupled from your actions. When in reality you can actually control your feelings by taking actions. So for example in this case by genuinely doing-interest in someone (regardless of whether you feel-interest initially) you will find you actually soon enough feel-interest in them. You are a process not an entity and you can modify your own code.
  - endtime 18y ago
    I used to feel exactly the same way. But think about this: you talk to your mom differently than you talk to a potential employer in an interview, right? Does that mean you're not being yourself? Of course not. You're just behaving appropriately in different situations. What I realized is that socializing isn't about being totally unconstrained and unfiltered - there are constraints/guidelines for social behavior, just like for interview behavior.
ambulatorybird 18y ago
Being likeable and making friends aren't necessarily the same thing. For example, as a teacher I try to be likeable to my students so that they have a more pleasant and interesting time in the classroom. But I don't try to be their friend, because then they might be tempted to try to take advantage. Conversely, with my friends I am often not all that likeable, but they understand that it's just part of my gruff, honest personality.
- dawson 18y ago
  "Being likeable and making friends aren't necessarily the same thing" Good point, thank you.

by dawson 18y ago

briancooley 18y ago

It's called being sociable. Nobody will develop a deep friendship with you in the first few minutes of conversation. On the other hand, you might miss out on potential friendships if you are aloof and off-putting in the first few minutes of interaction. Just get something started and iterate. The relationship may never amount to more than an acquaintance, but at least give it a chance to get off the ground.

mechanical_fish 18y ago

you're not being "you", and surely that's the whole point? You need to be careful with the notion of "just being you". That phrase is based on a specific conception of what "you" means: "You" are a Platonic ideal personality that exists independently of its instantiation, your physical body and its actions are a window on this One True You, and the best modes of expression are the ones through which the One True You is most clearly visible. But this is just a mental model. And it's not always the most useful model. Here's a different model: "You" are a product of your environment as well as your mind. When you're writing on HN you're a different person than when you're writing for Twitter. When you're writing for business you use a different voice than when writing for pleasure. When you make a deliberate effort to smile, to enjoy people and be entertained, you are a different person. You're not necessarily just impersonating a happy and interested person -- you might be surprised to find that you genuinely are happy and interested! You'll have a lot more friends. You'll get better practice at making friends. Various feedback mechanisms will kick in: biological ones, social ones. You'll be a different person than you are when you sit alone in your apartment. There is nothing insincere about having multiple aspects of your personality, cultivating them, and applying different ones in different situations. We all do this. Humans are far too complicated to be constrained by a single persona, and our behavior and mood is conditioned on environment and on training.

dawson 18y ago
"There is nothing insincere about having multiple aspects of your personality, cultivating them, and applying different ones in different situations." I agree, and I never said that, I was talking about faking these emotions, pretending to be interested in someone or that they're amusing, when they're in fact not. This is insincere, and it's not being "you".
- mhb 18y ago
  That's fine. But another aspect of this is that people like other people who are happy. You can choose to make yourself genuinely happier when interacting with someone by smiling. If you learn math in order be better at solving problems, you've created a new smarter you. Is the real you the one who knew less math? In the same way, you can choose to become a happier person who is more appealing to other people.
- mdakin 18y ago
  Your statement reminds me of one of David Reynolds's concepts discussed in his book _Constructive Living_. Which was an interesting and quick read although somehow a bit unsatisfying. I've not thought about the "why" of that satisfaction point so I can't really recommend (or not) the book other than to say it's a quick read and has some redeeming qualities so it might be worth looking at. Anyway, the actual concept concerns a weakness with the English language that actually impacts the thinking of native English speakers. And I think your thinking is falling into that pattern. The issue is that English blurs the concept of feeling an emotion and the doing of an emotional action. And it's useful to NOT blur those concepts into one thing. Specifically because by doing-X you can actually bring about feeling-X inside yourself. English leads you to believe that your current feeling is somehow decoupled from your actions. When in reality you can actually control your feelings by taking actions. So for example in this case by genuinely doing-interest in someone (regardless of whether you feel-interest initially) you will find you actually soon enough feel-interest in them. You are a process not an entity and you can modify your own code.
- endtime 18y ago
  I used to feel exactly the same way. But think about this: you talk to your mom differently than you talk to a potential employer in an interview, right? Does that mean you're not being yourself? Of course not. You're just behaving appropriately in different situations. What I realized is that socializing isn't about being totally unconstrained and unfiltered - there are constraints/guidelines for social behavior, just like for interview behavior.

ambulatorybird 18y ago

Being likeable and making friends aren't necessarily the same thing. For example, as a teacher I try to be likeable to my students so that they have a more pleasant and interesting time in the classroom. But I don't try to be their friend, because then they might be tempted to try to take advantage. Conversely, with my friends I am often not all that likeable, but they understand that it's just part of my gruff, honest personality.

dawson 18y ago
"Being likeable and making friends aren't necessarily the same thing" Good point, thank you.