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Excel is part of the cause. It simply mangles and hides programming. So it creates just the atmosphere were people think they can "avoid" programming and use

by fafner 13y ago

Excel is part of the cause. It simply mangles and hides programming. So it creates just the atmosphere were people think they can "avoid" programming and use Excel. Not realising that they are programming but in a very bad way. So don't try to hide and dumb down the programming part. This of course doesn't mean that mistakes wouldn't happen with better tools. http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~bdm25/excel2007.pdf http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~bdm25/excel2007.pdf

TeMPOraL 13y ago
It's actually another reason people should learn programming basics along with reading, writing and algebra.
mistermann 13y ago
> It simply mangles and hides programming. So it creates just the atmosphere were people think they can "avoid" programming and use Excel. This attitude bothers me somewhat. I'll certainly agree that the combination of Excel's power and ease of use allowing people to model really quite complex calculations and scenarios quickly and easily, and the ease of which they can do it leads to a inappropriate level of "respect" for the gravity of what they are calculating, insufficient testing, double checks, etc, leading to some massive blunders. But many people seem to go beyond this, asserting that one cannot do such things properly in Excel. I've actually heard one person with an absolutely straight face say that Excel should literally be taken away from engineers and finance folks, and any calculations they need to do should be custom implemented by "professional" developers who will do it "properly". Thoughts?
- memracom 13y ago
  People who make that suggestion don`t know that there are tools like ResolverONE. It is a spreadsheet that your finance people can use as usual. But when it comes time to validate assumptions and check the calculations, a professional developer can take the generated Python code, write unit tests and other kind of tests to make sure that it does what is intended. Creating spreadsheets could become a collaboration between professionals in finance and professionals in software development. The tools exist to allow this, but where is the will?
toasterlovin 13y ago
When modeling something where mistakes are expensive in Excel, a reasonable person checks their work. I've made Excel spreadsheets that are responsible for millions of dollars in inventory purchases. You better believe I check the shit out of those. I'm paranoid about making mistakes because a small number multiplied by a million is usually a dollar amount of consequence. In my opinion, people who don't check their work, just don't check their work. Whether they're using Excel or a "real programming language" doesn't matter. You can't blame Excel because people are reckless.
pramodliv1 13y ago
I guess finance folks have to get themselves educated about test driven development
ZoFreX 13y ago
One company I worked at was making billion dollar decisions based on tools made in spreadsheets. It was the only option really, the instances where we did actually have the bespoke tools we wanted were even worse! There is no way whoever made this felt they were avoiding programming though - this buggy, unmaintainable monstrosity was three-quarters VBA. I bet someone on work experience or an internship thought "I know how I can make this tedious manual process easier for everyone!" and (with the very best of intentions) created something that no-one down the line would ever be in a position to fix or update.

by fafner 13y ago

TeMPOraL 13y ago

It's actually another reason people should learn programming basics along with reading, writing and algebra.

mistermann 13y ago

> It simply mangles and hides programming. So it creates just the atmosphere were people think they can "avoid" programming and use Excel. This attitude bothers me somewhat. I'll certainly agree that the combination of Excel's power and ease of use allowing people to model really quite complex calculations and scenarios quickly and easily, and the ease of which they can do it leads to a inappropriate level of "respect" for the gravity of what they are calculating, insufficient testing, double checks, etc, leading to some massive blunders. But many people seem to go beyond this, asserting that one cannot do such things properly in Excel. I've actually heard one person with an absolutely straight face say that Excel should literally be taken away from engineers and finance folks, and any calculations they need to do should be custom implemented by "professional" developers who will do it "properly". Thoughts?

memracom 13y ago
People who make that suggestion don`t know that there are tools like ResolverONE. It is a spreadsheet that your finance people can use as usual. But when it comes time to validate assumptions and check the calculations, a professional developer can take the generated Python code, write unit tests and other kind of tests to make sure that it does what is intended. Creating spreadsheets could become a collaboration between professionals in finance and professionals in software development. The tools exist to allow this, but where is the will?

toasterlovin 13y ago

When modeling something where mistakes are expensive in Excel, a reasonable person checks their work. I've made Excel spreadsheets that are responsible for millions of dollars in inventory purchases. You better believe I check the shit out of those. I'm paranoid about making mistakes because a small number multiplied by a million is usually a dollar amount of consequence. In my opinion, people who don't check their work, just don't check their work. Whether they're using Excel or a "real programming language" doesn't matter. You can't blame Excel because people are reckless.

pramodliv1 13y ago

I guess finance folks have to get themselves educated about test driven development

ZoFreX 13y ago

One company I worked at was making billion dollar decisions based on tools made in spreadsheets. It was the only option really, the instances where we did actually have the bespoke tools we wanted were even worse! There is no way whoever made this felt they were avoiding programming though - this buggy, unmaintainable monstrosity was three-quarters VBA. I bet someone on work experience or an internship thought "I know how I can make this tedious manual process easier for everyone!" and (with the very best of intentions) created something that no-one down the line would ever be in a position to fix or update.