5 ms·

I'm always amazed at people for whom Excel is the hammer with which they bang on all problems. Bug tracking with Jira, Bugzilla, Mantis, or Trac? Heck no, Exc

by crusso 14y ago

I'm always amazed at people for whom Excel is the hammer with which they bang on all problems. Bug tracking with Jira, Bugzilla, Mantis, or Trac? Heck no, Excel is the tool for the job!

klodolph 14y ago
I'd say Excel is superior to those systems for any one-person project. Especially monsters like Bugzilla, which shine for huge projects but impose a lot of overhead on tiny projects.
- mbreese 14y ago
  The trick with Excel is knowing when you've crossed that inflection point where you need something better. Unfortunately most people can't see that inflection since they only know Excel. And for others, it might be hard to transition away because they have all of their data in Excel.
- crusso 14y ago
  Especially monsters like Bugzilla I just choked on my soda. Bugzilla packages install in a command line and you can be up and running with a product, a couple of components for categorization, and user accounts 15 minutes later. The only time I don't take that 15 minutes is if I'm working on a project where I'll NEVER be working directly with anyone else. Even then, it's often nice "just in case" someone else comes along later and wants to collaborate, you need to keep up with issues fixed in various releases, etc.
  - klodolph 14y ago
    Please update the instructions if they are wrong then: http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/4.4/en/html/installation.html http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/4.4/en/html/installation.html In particular, any piece of software that needs an MTA in order to run is not going to be pleasant when you are running a one-person project. What, are you going to want to receive email updates from yourself whenever you update a bug that you created on the computer you are using right now? I wasn't even talking about installation, however. Go to the Landfill if you don't believe me (http://landfill.bugzilla.org/ http://landfill.bugzilla.org/). You want to create a new bug? You first have to create a product, then you have to create components. You have to fill out the entire form when filing a bug, even if you only have one product, one component, and only target one operating system. Then look at a bug report. Log in to Landfill and look at a bug. Here's one: https://landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla-4.4-branch/show_bug.cgi?id=3058 https://landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla-4.4-branch/show_bug.c... Then think about the cost of running Bugzilla. You are now running a web server. What if you don't have a server? What if you just have a laptop for the road and a desktop at home? How are you going to do database backups? Tell me: does this beat an Excel spreadsheet for a one-person project? Edit: I'm not saying Bugzilla is bad software. I'm saying it's like a stick shift. If you put an automatic transmission in a car, you alienate users who prefer manual. If you put a manual transmission in a car, you alienate users who don't know how to use it.
    - fredsted 14y ago
      > needs an MTA From the same docs you linked to: > Bugzilla is dependent on the availability of an e-mail system for its user authentication and for other tasks. > This is not entirely true. It is possible to completely disable email sending, or to have Bugzilla store email messages in a file instead of sending them. However, this is mainly intended for testing, as disabling or diverting email on a production machine would mean that users could miss important events (such as bug changes or the creation of new accounts). (emphasis mine)
    - crusso 14y ago
      any piece of software that needs an MTA in order to run What distro doesn't already have an MTA installed? Create product: Click the "new product" link then type in "My New Software Project" enter. Create components: Under your new product, click the "new component" linke then type in "Miscellaneous", press enter. There, you have your product and a catch-all component for all your new issues. Divide into more meaningful components as time goes on. What if you don't have a server? Now I see the misunderstanding here. I was referring to professional software projects where I've had to work with other people, some of whom here and there wished to track bugs in spreadsheets. Any such project that I work on has at least one server available. Hell, for small consulting projects I just use one of the servers running in my house to bootstrap things. You know, you can get a RaspberryPi and plenty of flash storage space for running as a server (with Bugzilla, an MTA, and everything) for projects for less than $50. If you're referring to small personal projects then sure. Use a text file or a spreadsheet or strings tied to your fingers to remind you of things.
      - klodolph 14y ago
        > I'd say Excel is superior to those systems for any one-person project. > I was referring to professional software projects where I've had to work with other people We're having different discussions. It happens. I was pretty careful about choice of words: I said "tiny" and "one-person" rather than "small". For a "small" project I'd use Bugzilla or Trac or whatever makes the grass greener with the least fertilizer. Not every developer wants to be a sysadmin. Some developers are hobbyists with a single Windows machine—for those developers, Bugzilla administration might be an arduous task which requires skills they don't want to waste graymatter on.
  - emiliobumachar 14y ago
    Once you already know how to use it...
gcr 14y ago
My team uses text files for bug and issue tracking, which are just fine for modest teams. Excel is quite sufficient for many tasks.
- crusso 14y ago
  Yeah, I've worked in groups like that. Simplicity works great until testers need to verify that the bug was fixed and see the way that the issue was found and how to reproduce it or god forbid the developer rationale in what he did. Then rather than looking in an easy to search system or record they're stopping developers from writing code so they can answer the questions. Then as is typical with informal systems, they have those conversations over the phone which means that the knowledge never goes beyond those two people. All these failures just get magnified when the software is then distributed out in the field or new developers join the team down the road.
  - gcr 14y ago
    You can misuse any system. JIRA or BugZilla doesn't magically give the testers that information; the burden is on the developers to document what they did. Personally, as a developer with other things to do, I'd rather just jot my notes in my bugs.txt file instead of remembering to put them in BugZilla's "Steps to reproduce:" text box. I don't understand your point about searchability. It's easier to grep through a text file than remember the proper incantation to go in <random bug tracker package's search box>
anigbrowl 14y ago
Way back before Excel became widely available, I knew an accountant who used SuperCalc as his word processor.
- crusso 14y ago
  I once received a complete 50 page web site design in Excel with embedded screen images, lists of features, and navigation guides.

by crusso 14y ago

I'm always amazed at people for whom Excel is the hammer with which they bang on all problems. Bug tracking with Jira, Bugzilla, Mantis, or Trac? Heck no, Excel is the tool for the job!

klodolph 14y ago

I'd say Excel is superior to those systems for any one-person project. Especially monsters like Bugzilla, which shine for huge projects but impose a lot of overhead on tiny projects.

mbreese 14y ago
The trick with Excel is knowing when you've crossed that inflection point where you need something better. Unfortunately most people can't see that inflection since they only know Excel. And for others, it might be hard to transition away because they have all of their data in Excel.
crusso 14y ago
Especially monsters like Bugzilla I just choked on my soda. Bugzilla packages install in a command line and you can be up and running with a product, a couple of components for categorization, and user accounts 15 minutes later. The only time I don't take that 15 minutes is if I'm working on a project where I'll NEVER be working directly with anyone else. Even then, it's often nice "just in case" someone else comes along later and wants to collaborate, you need to keep up with issues fixed in various releases, etc.
- klodolph 14y ago
  Please update the instructions if they are wrong then: http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/4.4/en/html/installation.html http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/4.4/en/html/installation.html In particular, any piece of software that needs an MTA in order to run is not going to be pleasant when you are running a one-person project. What, are you going to want to receive email updates from yourself whenever you update a bug that you created on the computer you are using right now? I wasn't even talking about installation, however. Go to the Landfill if you don't believe me (http://landfill.bugzilla.org/ http://landfill.bugzilla.org/). You want to create a new bug? You first have to create a product, then you have to create components. You have to fill out the entire form when filing a bug, even if you only have one product, one component, and only target one operating system. Then look at a bug report. Log in to Landfill and look at a bug. Here's one: https://landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla-4.4-branch/show_bug.cgi?id=3058 https://landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla-4.4-branch/show_bug.c... Then think about the cost of running Bugzilla. You are now running a web server. What if you don't have a server? What if you just have a laptop for the road and a desktop at home? How are you going to do database backups? Tell me: does this beat an Excel spreadsheet for a one-person project? Edit: I'm not saying Bugzilla is bad software. I'm saying it's like a stick shift. If you put an automatic transmission in a car, you alienate users who prefer manual. If you put a manual transmission in a car, you alienate users who don't know how to use it.
  - fredsted 14y ago
    > needs an MTA From the same docs you linked to: > Bugzilla is dependent on the availability of an e-mail system for its user authentication and for other tasks. > This is not entirely true. It is possible to completely disable email sending, or to have Bugzilla store email messages in a file instead of sending them. However, this is mainly intended for testing, as disabling or diverting email on a production machine would mean that users could miss important events (such as bug changes or the creation of new accounts). (emphasis mine)
  - crusso 14y ago
    any piece of software that needs an MTA in order to run What distro doesn't already have an MTA installed? Create product: Click the "new product" link then type in "My New Software Project" enter. Create components: Under your new product, click the "new component" linke then type in "Miscellaneous", press enter. There, you have your product and a catch-all component for all your new issues. Divide into more meaningful components as time goes on. What if you don't have a server? Now I see the misunderstanding here. I was referring to professional software projects where I've had to work with other people, some of whom here and there wished to track bugs in spreadsheets. Any such project that I work on has at least one server available. Hell, for small consulting projects I just use one of the servers running in my house to bootstrap things. You know, you can get a RaspberryPi and plenty of flash storage space for running as a server (with Bugzilla, an MTA, and everything) for projects for less than $50. If you're referring to small personal projects then sure. Use a text file or a spreadsheet or strings tied to your fingers to remind you of things.
    - klodolph 14y ago
      > I'd say Excel is superior to those systems for any one-person project. > I was referring to professional software projects where I've had to work with other people We're having different discussions. It happens. I was pretty careful about choice of words: I said "tiny" and "one-person" rather than "small". For a "small" project I'd use Bugzilla or Trac or whatever makes the grass greener with the least fertilizer. Not every developer wants to be a sysadmin. Some developers are hobbyists with a single Windows machine—for those developers, Bugzilla administration might be an arduous task which requires skills they don't want to waste graymatter on.
- emiliobumachar 14y ago
  Once you already know how to use it...

gcr 14y ago

My team uses text files for bug and issue tracking, which are just fine for modest teams. Excel is quite sufficient for many tasks.

crusso 14y ago
Yeah, I've worked in groups like that. Simplicity works great until testers need to verify that the bug was fixed and see the way that the issue was found and how to reproduce it or god forbid the developer rationale in what he did. Then rather than looking in an easy to search system or record they're stopping developers from writing code so they can answer the questions. Then as is typical with informal systems, they have those conversations over the phone which means that the knowledge never goes beyond those two people. All these failures just get magnified when the software is then distributed out in the field or new developers join the team down the road.
- gcr 14y ago
  You can misuse any system. JIRA or BugZilla doesn't magically give the testers that information; the burden is on the developers to document what they did. Personally, as a developer with other things to do, I'd rather just jot my notes in my bugs.txt file instead of remembering to put them in BugZilla's "Steps to reproduce:" text box. I don't understand your point about searchability. It's easier to grep through a text file than remember the proper incantation to go in <random bug tracker package's search box>

anigbrowl 14y ago

Way back before Excel became widely available, I knew an accountant who used SuperCalc as his word processor.

crusso 14y ago
I once received a complete 50 page web site design in Excel with embedded screen images, lists of features, and navigation guides.