Chess and Go and Bridge and Ambition (self-plug, why the fuck not: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S7lsZKzHuuhoTb2Wj_L3zrhHZh5IEKBDf56ExgErv4o/edit https://

Chess and Go and Bridge and Ambition (self-plug, why the fuck not: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S7lsZKzHuuhoTb2Wj_L3zrhHZh5IEKBDf56ExgErv4o/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/1S7lsZKzHuuhoTb2Wj_L3zrhH... ) aren't truly zero-sum because the hedonic payoff is based on the quality of the game ("the game" meaning the immutable artifact as well as "the game" meaning the specific contest among players) not winning or losing. You still enjoy a truly great game if you lose, just slightly less than if you win. There's an emergent art to the game that is appealing and interesting regardless of the outcome. Poker is in the middle. I feel like it's more of a zero-sum game because it just sucks to lose. At real stakes, I find losing humiliating. At low stakes or for free, I don't care. The game itself I am not that into. I see what you mean about PvP. The culture of them (at least, as usually played) makes it hard to enjoy the game for its own sake.