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After the Madrid bombings they didn't shut the city down, and they weren't suicide bombers. They didn't shut London down during the IRA bombing attacks during t

by mogrim 14y ago

After the Madrid bombings they didn't shut the city down, and they weren't suicide bombers. They didn't shut London down during the IRA bombing attacks during the 80s either. And that's two examples I've lived through. TBH I find it hard to think of a single example of a terrorist bombing leading to a city shutdown, apart from this one. It makes clear sense to shut down a local neighbourhood, a couple of streets... but a whole city??? WTF???

wahnfrieden 14y ago
The city was not shut down after the bombing. It was not until the events that happened days later that it was. So you cannot just compare the bombing itself without being facetious.
barking 14y ago
IIRC they put a 'ring of steel' around the financial distict of London ('the city') in the early 90s as a way of protecting it from IRA attacks. Also the IRA gave warnings so that despite truck size bombs the loss of life was relatively small (1 in the Bishopsgate bomb in '93) Saying you 'lived through' that is a bit dramatic. A lot of us did and it meant nothing more than reading about it in the paper same as everyone else.
- hga 14y ago
  More than a bit of revisionism here; sure, that was often the pattern but not always successful in preventing deaths or hundreds of injuries per bombing, and they were less fastidious against regieme targets: attempting to assasinate Thacher and her cabinet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing, 5 killed), soldiers and spectators at Hyde Park and Regent's Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Park_and_Regent%27s_Park_bombings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Park_and_Regent%27s_Park_b...), etc. Again from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign_1969%E2%80%931997#Attacks_outside_Northern_Ireland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Ar...): "During the IRA's 25 year campaign in England, 115 deaths and 2,134 injuries were reported, from a total of almost 500 attacks. Malcom Sutton reports 125 fatalities in Britain, 68 civilians, 50 members of the security forces and 7 paramilitaries." By the latter count more civilians than even theoretically legitimate targets.
  - barking 14y ago
    I fail to see how my post was revisionistic. Your own statistics suggest that there was about 1 fatality for every 4 attacks. And that was over a 20 year period. That was the only point I was making and it was in response to another poster's comment about how London was not locked-down in response. Locking-down London would have been ridiculous. In fact the IRA would have viewed that as a victory. The Boston situation was very different in almost every aspect.
    - mogrim 14y ago
      Ok, the London IRA example wasn't identical - but the Madrid example was. (Presumably) islamic terrorism, perpetrators still at large, etc. No shutdown.
afterburner 14y ago
A small area was locked down when they thought the suspect was in that area. When they couldn't find him, they widened the area. Turned out the suspect was found just outside the initial, small lock down area. Seems to me they had good info, and acted appropriately. Lockdowns work when you have info about the suspect's location. You don't just lock down after any large crime. Especially considering bombs can be detonated via cell phone. But when the police had some intel on location, they locked a small area down, and then expanded when they feared the suspect had managed to get out of the area.
twistedpair 14y ago
City wasn't shut down. I really wish people that don't live where would cease making such posits. I went to work. Ate lunch out. Bought groceries. Why shutdown mass transit? So he could not easily flee. It is now known he was hiding within the lockdown area and then moved out of there to the boat. If the buses and trains had been running, there is no telling where he would have gotten or what he might have done.
- mogrim 14y ago
  > City wasn't shut down Fair enough, I wasn't there - and I'm sure that had I been there I'd have been sitting quietly in my residence. But right or wrong, the message I picked up from Twitter / CNN / BBC / Spanish news was of a city shut down.
  - Evbn 14y ago
    Well maybe it's advisable not repeat Twitter rumors on HN as foundation for your analysis. That's just contributing to misinformation that hinders the police ability to safely handle mass casualty situations.

by mogrim 14y ago

wahnfrieden 14y ago

The city was not shut down after the bombing. It was not until the events that happened days later that it was. So you cannot just compare the bombing itself without being facetious.

barking 14y ago

IIRC they put a 'ring of steel' around the financial distict of London ('the city') in the early 90s as a way of protecting it from IRA attacks. Also the IRA gave warnings so that despite truck size bombs the loss of life was relatively small (1 in the Bishopsgate bomb in '93) Saying you 'lived through' that is a bit dramatic. A lot of us did and it meant nothing more than reading about it in the paper same as everyone else.

hga 14y ago
More than a bit of revisionism here; sure, that was often the pattern but not always successful in preventing deaths or hundreds of injuries per bombing, and they were less fastidious against regieme targets: attempting to assasinate Thacher and her cabinet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing, 5 killed), soldiers and spectators at Hyde Park and Regent's Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Park_and_Regent%27s_Park_bombings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Park_and_Regent%27s_Park_b...), etc. Again from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign_1969%E2%80%931997#Attacks_outside_Northern_Ireland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Ar...): "During the IRA's 25 year campaign in England, 115 deaths and 2,134 injuries were reported, from a total of almost 500 attacks. Malcom Sutton reports 125 fatalities in Britain, 68 civilians, 50 members of the security forces and 7 paramilitaries." By the latter count more civilians than even theoretically legitimate targets.
- barking 14y ago
  I fail to see how my post was revisionistic. Your own statistics suggest that there was about 1 fatality for every 4 attacks. And that was over a 20 year period. That was the only point I was making and it was in response to another poster's comment about how London was not locked-down in response. Locking-down London would have been ridiculous. In fact the IRA would have viewed that as a victory. The Boston situation was very different in almost every aspect.
  - mogrim 14y ago
    Ok, the London IRA example wasn't identical - but the Madrid example was. (Presumably) islamic terrorism, perpetrators still at large, etc. No shutdown.

afterburner 14y ago

A small area was locked down when they thought the suspect was in that area. When they couldn't find him, they widened the area. Turned out the suspect was found just outside the initial, small lock down area. Seems to me they had good info, and acted appropriately. Lockdowns work when you have info about the suspect's location. You don't just lock down after any large crime. Especially considering bombs can be detonated via cell phone. But when the police had some intel on location, they locked a small area down, and then expanded when they feared the suspect had managed to get out of the area.

twistedpair 14y ago

City wasn't shut down. I really wish people that don't live where would cease making such posits. I went to work. Ate lunch out. Bought groceries. Why shutdown mass transit? So he could not easily flee. It is now known he was hiding within the lockdown area and then moved out of there to the boat. If the buses and trains had been running, there is no telling where he would have gotten or what he might have done.

mogrim 14y ago
> City wasn't shut down Fair enough, I wasn't there - and I'm sure that had I been there I'd have been sitting quietly in my residence. But right or wrong, the message I picked up from Twitter / CNN / BBC / Spanish news was of a city shut down.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Well maybe it's advisable not repeat Twitter rumors on HN as foundation for your analysis. That's just contributing to misinformation that hinders the police ability to safely handle mass casualty situations.