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They were actually about to abort the "bruteforce" operation before they got a call that someone had found the suspect in their boat, outside the perimeter. I r

They were actually about to abort the "bruteforce" operation before they got a call that someone had found the suspect in their boat, outside the perimeter. I really hope they evalute the operation properly. A good outcome doesn't necessarily validate the process.

emily37 13y ago
I thought it was really odd that they told people they could go about their business after completing the Watertown search without finding him. It seemed to me at that point the probability of us being injured had just gone up. However, lifting the stay-indoors request turned out to be crucial, because a man spotted the blood on the boat only after going outside for the first time all day. On the other hand, if they had simply expanded the search area block by block without lifting the stay-indoors request, then they probably would have found him quickly with less risk to Watertown residents. In any case, I agree that it's important for the governments involved to evaluate what could have been done better.
- cynicalkane 13y ago
  I thought it was really odd that they told people they could go about their business after completing the Watertown search without finding him. You find it really odd we don't live in a police state?
  - emily37 13y ago
    I think you're misinterpreting my comment. I found it odd that we were advised to stay indoors all day and then told that we no longer needed to stay indoors at the exact point at which danger seemed to be more likely. My comment wasn't saying anything about my opinion as to whether or not the stay-indoors request was reasonable. But I think it's also worth noting that the stay-indoors request was a request, as far as I know. Every notification that I received was something along the lines of people being asked to stay indoors with the doors locked, and I know people who chose to go outdoors before the request was lifted. The city shut down because people chose to honor the request out of confidence in the judgement and good intentions of the police. I personally chose to stay indoors because I thought the suspect was probably wandering around on foot in the Watertown/Cambridge area and I thought the inconvenience of staying inside for a day outweighed the risk of running into him.
- cjbprime 13y ago
  > On the other hand, if they had simply expanded the search area block by block without lifting the stay-indoors request, then they probably would have found him quickly with less risk to Watertown residents. On the other other hand, it was getting dark -- the stay-indoors request was lifted an hour from sunset -- and it would have been harder to see the blood without daylight. So maybe they lifted it just in time, or should have lifted it much earlier?
- weisser 13y ago
  > However, lifting the stay-indoors request turned out to be crucial, because a man spotted the blood on the boat only after going outside for the first time all day. And I think that was why they might have decided to allow it. Most people would NOT have felt comfortable going outside until he was caught and by letting people go out they had more eyes and a better chance of spotting him. It worked, and quickly.
- Thrymr 13y ago
  The suspect hiding in the boat was found directly because the police finally told people to go about their business. Alternatively, if they had lifted the shelter-in-place order earlier, the guy would have gone out in his yard and noticed something going on in his boat sooner.
CurtMonash 13y ago
If they had a helicopter that could detect infrared, which indeed sufficed to find him under the boat, why wasn't that already deployed to look into shed, boats, etc. around the neighborhood? (Including outside the main perimeter.) I doubt the reason was 4th Amendment scruples.
- krapp 13y ago
  Who says it wasn't? Having infrared and having it be easy to find someone who doesn't want to be found with it in an urban environment are different things.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  I think you'd need to equip the helicopter with precision grid-flying software/hardware such as is in SAR aircraft and Crop Dusters. FLIR can indeed see "through" some things, but the successful FLIR uses that you see on youtube and TV are usually cases where the pilot has a very small area to search. A comprehensive search of more than a few blocks would need multiple craft and lots of fuel. I agree that the authorities seem to lack awareness of the Bill of Rights.
  - CurtMonash 13y ago
    I wasn't suggesting an exhaustive search of, say, a 20-100 block area. I was suggesting a search of a prioritized list -- initially based on visual examination of aerial photographs -- of sheds, boats, and other simple structures in the area.

emily37 13y ago

I thought it was really odd that they told people they could go about their business after completing the Watertown search without finding him. It seemed to me at that point the probability of us being injured had just gone up. However, lifting the stay-indoors request turned out to be crucial, because a man spotted the blood on the boat only after going outside for the first time all day. On the other hand, if they had simply expanded the search area block by block without lifting the stay-indoors request, then they probably would have found him quickly with less risk to Watertown residents. In any case, I agree that it's important for the governments involved to evaluate what could have been done better.

cynicalkane 13y ago
I thought it was really odd that they told people they could go about their business after completing the Watertown search without finding him. You find it really odd we don't live in a police state?
- emily37 13y ago
  I think you're misinterpreting my comment. I found it odd that we were advised to stay indoors all day and then told that we no longer needed to stay indoors at the exact point at which danger seemed to be more likely. My comment wasn't saying anything about my opinion as to whether or not the stay-indoors request was reasonable. But I think it's also worth noting that the stay-indoors request was a request, as far as I know. Every notification that I received was something along the lines of people being asked to stay indoors with the doors locked, and I know people who chose to go outdoors before the request was lifted. The city shut down because people chose to honor the request out of confidence in the judgement and good intentions of the police. I personally chose to stay indoors because I thought the suspect was probably wandering around on foot in the Watertown/Cambridge area and I thought the inconvenience of staying inside for a day outweighed the risk of running into him.
cjbprime 13y ago
> On the other hand, if they had simply expanded the search area block by block without lifting the stay-indoors request, then they probably would have found him quickly with less risk to Watertown residents. On the other other hand, it was getting dark -- the stay-indoors request was lifted an hour from sunset -- and it would have been harder to see the blood without daylight. So maybe they lifted it just in time, or should have lifted it much earlier?
weisser 13y ago
> However, lifting the stay-indoors request turned out to be crucial, because a man spotted the blood on the boat only after going outside for the first time all day. And I think that was why they might have decided to allow it. Most people would NOT have felt comfortable going outside until he was caught and by letting people go out they had more eyes and a better chance of spotting him. It worked, and quickly.
Thrymr 13y ago
The suspect hiding in the boat was found directly because the police finally told people to go about their business. Alternatively, if they had lifted the shelter-in-place order earlier, the guy would have gone out in his yard and noticed something going on in his boat sooner.

CurtMonash 13y ago

If they had a helicopter that could detect infrared, which indeed sufficed to find him under the boat, why wasn't that already deployed to look into shed, boats, etc. around the neighborhood? (Including outside the main perimeter.) I doubt the reason was 4th Amendment scruples.

krapp 13y ago
Who says it wasn't? Having infrared and having it be easy to find someone who doesn't want to be found with it in an urban environment are different things.
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
I think you'd need to equip the helicopter with precision grid-flying software/hardware such as is in SAR aircraft and Crop Dusters. FLIR can indeed see "through" some things, but the successful FLIR uses that you see on youtube and TV are usually cases where the pilot has a very small area to search. A comprehensive search of more than a few blocks would need multiple craft and lots of fuel. I agree that the authorities seem to lack awareness of the Bill of Rights.
- CurtMonash 13y ago
  I wasn't suggesting an exhaustive search of, say, a 20-100 block area. I was suggesting a search of a prioritized list -- initially based on visual examination of aerial photographs -- of sheds, boats, and other simple structures in the area.