4 ms·

I'm aware of that, which is why I was hoping C11 would just fall out of the C++11 implementation. The people working on the C++11/C11 standards did so specific

I'm aware of that, which is why I was hoping C11 would just fall out of the C++11 implementation. The people working on the C++11/C11 standards did so specifically to bring the languages closer together. If you fully implement C++11, then C11 comes along for relatively little cost. I keep hoping that Microsoft will wake up and realise that just as HTML5 was important, so is language support for the lingua-franca of the computing world.

snogglethorpe 13y ago
One issue might be manpower ... My impression has been that MS's compiler team is woefully understaffed / overworked given the relatively influential position of their products.
- binarycrusader 13y ago
  Yeah, that's been my impression as well. They have a few people keeping the lights on, but that's it when it comes to C/C++. For a company that wants to charge $13K+ for the "Ultimate" edition of their product, I'm not impressed with the current support.
  - dottrap 13y ago
    Not disputing understaffed possibly being true, and not arguing with you guys, but it's a poor excuse for Microsoft being one of the richest, most powerful companies in the world, while willing and continuing to lose billions on things like Bing, Xbox (it's true, they still haven't broken even if you count all they spent plus the red-ring-of-death write-offs), Zune, and now their mobile initiatives. And what was Microsoft doing in those 12 years between C99 and C11? What are they doing so inefficiently in their design that they can't figure out how to implement C when every other C++ compiler team has? Come on, Clang didn't even exist until 6 years ago. Stupid positions Microsoft takes like this with regards to C99 and C11 only underscore how pathetic, short sighted, and clueless they have been for over a decade. They have needlessly alienated developers they profess they need so much for so little reason. How ironic that now they are begging developers to do Windows RT and are promoting "going native".
    - helmut_hed 13y ago
      How ironic that now they are ... promoting "going native" Actually for me this is a sign that they are finally starting to Get It. I agree with your sentiments on the last decade but it seems to be improving now.
CJefferson 13y ago
C++11 (and C++03) do not include lots of C99 features. For example, C++03/11 do not contain variable length arrays (one of the C99 features people often want).
- binarycrusader 13y ago
  I'm aware of that, but if I had to give up VLA to get the rest of C11, I'd do so in a heartbeat.

snogglethorpe 13y ago

One issue might be manpower ... My impression has been that MS's compiler team is woefully understaffed / overworked given the relatively influential position of their products.

binarycrusader 13y ago
Yeah, that's been my impression as well. They have a few people keeping the lights on, but that's it when it comes to C/C++. For a company that wants to charge $13K+ for the "Ultimate" edition of their product, I'm not impressed with the current support.
- dottrap 13y ago
  Not disputing understaffed possibly being true, and not arguing with you guys, but it's a poor excuse for Microsoft being one of the richest, most powerful companies in the world, while willing and continuing to lose billions on things like Bing, Xbox (it's true, they still haven't broken even if you count all they spent plus the red-ring-of-death write-offs), Zune, and now their mobile initiatives. And what was Microsoft doing in those 12 years between C99 and C11? What are they doing so inefficiently in their design that they can't figure out how to implement C when every other C++ compiler team has? Come on, Clang didn't even exist until 6 years ago. Stupid positions Microsoft takes like this with regards to C99 and C11 only underscore how pathetic, short sighted, and clueless they have been for over a decade. They have needlessly alienated developers they profess they need so much for so little reason. How ironic that now they are begging developers to do Windows RT and are promoting "going native".
  - helmut_hed 13y ago
    How ironic that now they are ... promoting "going native" Actually for me this is a sign that they are finally starting to Get It. I agree with your sentiments on the last decade but it seems to be improving now.

CJefferson 13y ago

C++11 (and C++03) do not include lots of C99 features. For example, C++03/11 do not contain variable length arrays (one of the C99 features people often want).

binarycrusader 13y ago
I'm aware of that, but if I had to give up VLA to get the rest of C11, I'd do so in a heartbeat.