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This kind of thinking is very dangerous and can be used to excuse all sorts of terrible behavior. We are all responsible for our actions. I can't prove that we

This kind of thinking is very dangerous and can be used to excuse all sorts of terrible behavior. We are all responsible for our actions. I can't prove that we have free will, but I feel it's important to believe it.

pekk 14y ago
The kind of thinking that is dangerous is the line that we deserve to have these things happen - those people deserved to have their limbs blown off - because America's foreign policy is "bad." At that point, you are agreeing with people like Bin Laden and you are just about set to contribute to these kinds of attacks yourself, because you agree with the reasons. Acknowledging that we live in a material world and there are multiple causes for things is incredibly minor by comparison, and isn't an ideological basis for carrying out terror attacks. Causes aren't the same as reasons.
frisco 14y ago
I think that's looking at it backwards. I'm not saying that he should be given any kind of leniency or have anything be "excused" because of this. I'm just wondering what a society would look like that started with the hypothesis that this was a failure in developing a citizen as opposed to a failure in preventing a crime. Obviously when you've gotten to this point, it's time to apply the law, not justify things away.
yew 14y ago
It's important to ask how this happened, because of course our choices are themselves brought about by external reasons. We can, in many cases, do something about it. We can teach people how to make better choices, too. But I agree, it's important not to lose sight of the fact that he did make the choice to be here today.
Historiopode 14y ago
Many would argue[1] that “responsibility” is an entirely perfunctory concept when you admit that society should judge and control you based on the actual consequences of your actions (and expectations of similar future behaviour). [1]One of the many is HN-aligned Sam Harris: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/life-without-free-will http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/life-without-free-will
deleted 14y ago
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pcvarmint 14y ago
Explanation != Excuse http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan60.html http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan60.html
danbruc 14y ago
I don't believe that humans have free will although from time to time I doubt my believe because it is so extremely far from our everyday experience. But this kind of thinking is not dangerous; either there is free will and everybody is - at least partially - responsible for his actions or there is no free will and we are done because everything just happens and we cannot even freely discuss this.
philwelch 14y ago
Even if you don't have free will, if you set off bombs and shoot cops for no good reason, there is something wrong with the way you're wired inside. Someone might even say it's "your fault".

pekk 14y ago

The kind of thinking that is dangerous is the line that we deserve to have these things happen - those people deserved to have their limbs blown off - because America's foreign policy is "bad." At that point, you are agreeing with people like Bin Laden and you are just about set to contribute to these kinds of attacks yourself, because you agree with the reasons. Acknowledging that we live in a material world and there are multiple causes for things is incredibly minor by comparison, and isn't an ideological basis for carrying out terror attacks. Causes aren't the same as reasons.

frisco 14y ago

I think that's looking at it backwards. I'm not saying that he should be given any kind of leniency or have anything be "excused" because of this. I'm just wondering what a society would look like that started with the hypothesis that this was a failure in developing a citizen as opposed to a failure in preventing a crime. Obviously when you've gotten to this point, it's time to apply the law, not justify things away.

yew 14y ago

It's important to ask how this happened, because of course our choices are themselves brought about by external reasons. We can, in many cases, do something about it. We can teach people how to make better choices, too. But I agree, it's important not to lose sight of the fact that he did make the choice to be here today.

Historiopode 14y ago

Many would argue[1] that “responsibility” is an entirely perfunctory concept when you admit that society should judge and control you based on the actual consequences of your actions (and expectations of similar future behaviour). [1]One of the many is HN-aligned Sam Harris: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/life-without-free-will http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/life-without-free-will

deleted 14y ago

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pcvarmint 14y ago

Explanation != Excuse http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan60.html http://www.lewrockwell.com/callahan/callahan60.html

danbruc 14y ago

I don't believe that humans have free will although from time to time I doubt my believe because it is so extremely far from our everyday experience. But this kind of thinking is not dangerous; either there is free will and everybody is - at least partially - responsible for his actions or there is no free will and we are done because everything just happens and we cannot even freely discuss this.

philwelch 14y ago

Even if you don't have free will, if you set off bombs and shoot cops for no good reason, there is something wrong with the way you're wired inside. Someone might even say it's "your fault".