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I either do not like Steve Jobs, or I feel sorry for him. One of those two. I do not like to speak ill of the dead, but I also do not like to sugar-coat thing

I either do not like Steve Jobs, or I feel sorry for him. One of those two. I do not like to speak ill of the dead, but I also do not like to sugar-coat things. Steve Jobs was mentally ill. A lot of people don't like to say that, but that is what he was. I cannot diagnose his exact condition, but he shared many traits of the common sociopath -- all except that he was never very charming, generally speaking. [0] Steve clawed his way to the top, and turned himself into a god, when all of his talents were really nothing more than hiring the right people (Steve would have been an absolute nobody if he had never met Wozniak (or a man of similar talent) to flush out his ideas) -- in fact he probably would have turned out to be a homeless person (if you had met him at Atari, you would have thought so). Steve was a bag of ideas -- ideas that were not original but, to his blessing, very consistent. And as most of us agree, ideas are only worth the quality of their execution. A lot of people look up to Steve for this reason - he was a non-engineer who came to rule the tech world. If he could do it, so could they. I have no real agenda against Jobs, and I would definitely say that his life was filled with interesting accomplishments (even if the only accomplishment was only swindling the world to pay 2x as much for his products). But this is one man I would never place on a pedestal, because he is not a model human being. The only heros I have know humility. Steve Jobs, even in the face of death, never learned that. [0] http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

sgpl 14y ago
>>> Steve clawed his way to the top, and turned himself into a god, when all of his talents were really nothing more than hiring the right people (Steve would have been an absolute nobody if he had never met Wozniak (or a man of similar talent) to flush out his ideas) -- in fact he probably would have turned out to be a homeless person You can say the same of almost everyone that is successful in the world. Also, Steve didn't turn himself into god, people did. Ambition and determination play a huge role in successful people's lives (depending on your definition of success), but LUCK is always a huge factor. For example... 0.) Lincoln wouldn't have become President if he had given up after a few election losses, and we could make an argument that slavery in America would have taken much longer to abolish or not at all without his leadership. Perhaps Lincoln was mentally ill to run so many times instead of gracefully accepting his loss. 1.) Elon Musk would never have cofounded SpaceX & Tesla would not be possible without him betting his financial future on the company. But you could make a similar statement that Elon wouldn't be who he is today, if he hadn't left Sooth Africa, if he hadn't stumbled upon SV, etc. 2.) JayZ would never have become what he is today, if he had gotten busted or shot in his younger years when he was dealing drugs. 3.) Nelson Mandel wouldn't be who he is today if he had given up on his ideals and dreams of the future while serving for 27 years in prison. 4.) Justin Bieber wouldn't be the most popular musician alive today if he(his mom) hadn't uploaded a video on youtube that resulted in his being recruited by some music manager and promoted just as social media and sharing where becoming the part of everyday life. He'd just be another guy that saw singing as a hobby or gained only regional fan following if he pursued his passion. TL:DR -> Almost everyone you know, respect, admire or don't would have been an "absolute nobody" if it weren't for certain circumstances favorable/unfavorable in their lives. On a more generic level, you could say if a person's biological mother hadn't consummated a relationship/fling/marriage with that person's biological father, that person and everything s/he has accomplished wouldn't exist.
- gavanwoolery 14y ago
  Yep - if not x, than not y applies to every aspect of the universe. :) But what I am trying to drive home is that (IMHO) there is a huge disconnect between Job's actual talents, and the amount of respect he is given. Wozniak too would have likely been a nobody, sometimes it takes that pairing of people to produce enough drive to create a product (I know because I have experienced it first hand -- I used to work with what you might call a psychological clone of Steve Jobs, but he got me to work at a rate I never have before - only he was never abusive). Anyway, all of what you say is basically true. :) But I feel like Jobs has stolen most of the respect from all the people who work so hard under him that really have made Apple what it is. I guess I kind of have the engineer's mind set, for better or worse - I admire people who can create things with their own two hands (or at least the people who get their hands dirty), and I don't particularly care for those who can't -- I can't really say that without sounding like an elitist prick, but maybe that is what I am. :)
  - intenex 14y ago
    So essentially, you're trying to say you're better than Steve Jobs because you can program?
    - gavanwoolery 14y ago
      For the record, I do not consider myself to be better than anyone - Steve was at least successful. My history is paved with failures.
- GeorgeTirebiter 14y ago
  Who is "JayZ" ? Somebody important, I assume?
  - snambi 14y ago
    me too.. i have never heard this name before. Then I googled. Here it is : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Z http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Z. He is a rapper.
wsc981 14y ago
Steve Wozniak about Steve Jobs: > Jobs was a good husband and father and a great businessman who had an eye for details. He said Jobs was a good marketer and understood the benefits of technology. > When it came to Apple's products, "while everyone else was fumbling around trying to find the formula, he had the better instincts," he said. > According to Wozniak, Jobs told him around the time he left Apple in 1985 that he had a feeling he would die before the age of 40. Because of that, "a lot of his life was focused on trying to get things done quickly," Wozniak said. > "I think what made Apple products special was very much one person, but he left a legacy," he said. Because of this, Wozniak hopes the company can continue to be successful despite Jobs' death. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/steve-wozniak-steve-jobs-death_n_997533.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/steve-wozniak-steve... While you're right that Steve Jobs would have gone nowhere without Steve Wozniak, the reverse is likely also true. Steve Wozniak had a big doubt on working on the Apple start-up; the security HP offered him was very tempting. I don't think the world would have known about Steve Wozniak if Steve Jobs didn't convince him to leave HP for the Apple start-up. I agree Steve Jobs might have been a sociopath, but then again, aren't many higher-up people in other businesses either? I think what mattered for Apple is that Steve Jobs cared about products most of all - sociopaths at many other companies only seem to care about how much money they make.
- gavanwoolery 14y ago
  Good points - I'd have to say I agree with you.
- rodgerd 14y ago
  Woz clearly has a different definition of being a good father to me; I think spending years in court to deny responsibility for your child pretty much disqualifies one for that particular praise.
  - EduardoBautista 14y ago
    Steve Jobs said that he regretted his behavior during that time. He also later gave her daughter and her mother enough money to live on and became closer to her daughter.
OnyeaboAduba 14y ago
You have no agenda against him but you call him mentally ill based of what stories that you read on the internet did you know him personally? Go on a road trip with him? Bump into him a the coffee shop? To say someone is mentally ill and doesn't have humility based of of internet articles is pretty classless. To your first question.. I either do not like Steve Jobs, or I feel sorry for him.... I think its pretty obvious which category your in
- gavanwoolery 14y ago
  To say that somebody is mentally ill is not an insult. Anyone can be mentally ill, just as anyone can catch the common cold. I do not know to what extent Jobs had control over his behavior, which is why I do not know to what extent I dislike him or feel sorry for him. However, between the experiences that everyone had with him, his book, and other sources, I think I can pretty safely say that to many people, he was not a very nice person.
  - OnyeaboAduba 14y ago
    I think there a huge difference between a common cold and a mental illness the effects on your life and the stigma that we as as society give it is impactful enough.I have a family member who is battling dementia its not something to be tallied about to describe "not very nice people" He was mean to someone people so what, If I where to interview everyone you've come across in your life ex coworkers, friends, girl or boyfriends there would be some people who said you where mean and a jerk too . 5 sides to almost every story
- briandear 14y ago
  It's called jealousy. People love to cut others down without having invented anything on their own.
RivieraKid 14y ago
I read Steve Job's biography and a book about sociopaths and SJ was definitely not a sociopath, he was a narcissist.
- briandear 14y ago
  Don't worry, the one who posted that Steve was a sociopath is apparently a 'hacker' which gives them qualifications in diagnosing mental illnesses based on 2nd and 3rd hand conjuncture without having met the 'patient.'
  - hobolobo 14y ago
    You seem to have taken this awfully personally. Is there a reason?
- gavanwoolery 14y ago
  I don't think he was a sociopath, only that he shared many symptoms. Namely seeming lack of empathy, narcissism, apparent lack of guilt (he almost never apologized, if what people say is true), etc. Like I said I don't know his exact condition.

sgpl 14y ago

>>> Steve clawed his way to the top, and turned himself into a god, when all of his talents were really nothing more than hiring the right people (Steve would have been an absolute nobody if he had never met Wozniak (or a man of similar talent) to flush out his ideas) -- in fact he probably would have turned out to be a homeless person You can say the same of almost everyone that is successful in the world. Also, Steve didn't turn himself into god, people did. Ambition and determination play a huge role in successful people's lives (depending on your definition of success), but LUCK is always a huge factor. For example... 0.) Lincoln wouldn't have become President if he had given up after a few election losses, and we could make an argument that slavery in America would have taken much longer to abolish or not at all without his leadership. Perhaps Lincoln was mentally ill to run so many times instead of gracefully accepting his loss. 1.) Elon Musk would never have cofounded SpaceX & Tesla would not be possible without him betting his financial future on the company. But you could make a similar statement that Elon wouldn't be who he is today, if he hadn't left Sooth Africa, if he hadn't stumbled upon SV, etc. 2.) JayZ would never have become what he is today, if he had gotten busted or shot in his younger years when he was dealing drugs. 3.) Nelson Mandel wouldn't be who he is today if he had given up on his ideals and dreams of the future while serving for 27 years in prison. 4.) Justin Bieber wouldn't be the most popular musician alive today if he(his mom) hadn't uploaded a video on youtube that resulted in his being recruited by some music manager and promoted just as social media and sharing where becoming the part of everyday life. He'd just be another guy that saw singing as a hobby or gained only regional fan following if he pursued his passion. TL:DR -> Almost everyone you know, respect, admire or don't would have been an "absolute nobody" if it weren't for certain circumstances favorable/unfavorable in their lives. On a more generic level, you could say if a person's biological mother hadn't consummated a relationship/fling/marriage with that person's biological father, that person and everything s/he has accomplished wouldn't exist.

gavanwoolery 14y ago
Yep - if not x, than not y applies to every aspect of the universe. :) But what I am trying to drive home is that (IMHO) there is a huge disconnect between Job's actual talents, and the amount of respect he is given. Wozniak too would have likely been a nobody, sometimes it takes that pairing of people to produce enough drive to create a product (I know because I have experienced it first hand -- I used to work with what you might call a psychological clone of Steve Jobs, but he got me to work at a rate I never have before - only he was never abusive). Anyway, all of what you say is basically true. :) But I feel like Jobs has stolen most of the respect from all the people who work so hard under him that really have made Apple what it is. I guess I kind of have the engineer's mind set, for better or worse - I admire people who can create things with their own two hands (or at least the people who get their hands dirty), and I don't particularly care for those who can't -- I can't really say that without sounding like an elitist prick, but maybe that is what I am. :)
- intenex 14y ago
  So essentially, you're trying to say you're better than Steve Jobs because you can program?
  - gavanwoolery 14y ago
    For the record, I do not consider myself to be better than anyone - Steve was at least successful. My history is paved with failures.
GeorgeTirebiter 14y ago
Who is "JayZ" ? Somebody important, I assume?
- snambi 14y ago
  me too.. i have never heard this name before. Then I googled. Here it is : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Z http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Z. He is a rapper.

wsc981 14y ago

Steve Wozniak about Steve Jobs: > Jobs was a good husband and father and a great businessman who had an eye for details. He said Jobs was a good marketer and understood the benefits of technology. > When it came to Apple's products, "while everyone else was fumbling around trying to find the formula, he had the better instincts," he said. > According to Wozniak, Jobs told him around the time he left Apple in 1985 that he had a feeling he would die before the age of 40. Because of that, "a lot of his life was focused on trying to get things done quickly," Wozniak said. > "I think what made Apple products special was very much one person, but he left a legacy," he said. Because of this, Wozniak hopes the company can continue to be successful despite Jobs' death. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/steve-wozniak-steve-jobs-death_n_997533.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/steve-wozniak-steve... While you're right that Steve Jobs would have gone nowhere without Steve Wozniak, the reverse is likely also true. Steve Wozniak had a big doubt on working on the Apple start-up; the security HP offered him was very tempting. I don't think the world would have known about Steve Wozniak if Steve Jobs didn't convince him to leave HP for the Apple start-up. I agree Steve Jobs might have been a sociopath, but then again, aren't many higher-up people in other businesses either? I think what mattered for Apple is that Steve Jobs cared about products most of all - sociopaths at many other companies only seem to care about how much money they make.

gavanwoolery 14y ago
Good points - I'd have to say I agree with you.
rodgerd 14y ago
Woz clearly has a different definition of being a good father to me; I think spending years in court to deny responsibility for your child pretty much disqualifies one for that particular praise.
- EduardoBautista 14y ago
  Steve Jobs said that he regretted his behavior during that time. He also later gave her daughter and her mother enough money to live on and became closer to her daughter.

OnyeaboAduba 14y ago

You have no agenda against him but you call him mentally ill based of what stories that you read on the internet did you know him personally? Go on a road trip with him? Bump into him a the coffee shop? To say someone is mentally ill and doesn't have humility based of of internet articles is pretty classless. To your first question.. I either do not like Steve Jobs, or I feel sorry for him.... I think its pretty obvious which category your in

gavanwoolery 14y ago
To say that somebody is mentally ill is not an insult. Anyone can be mentally ill, just as anyone can catch the common cold. I do not know to what extent Jobs had control over his behavior, which is why I do not know to what extent I dislike him or feel sorry for him. However, between the experiences that everyone had with him, his book, and other sources, I think I can pretty safely say that to many people, he was not a very nice person.
- OnyeaboAduba 14y ago
  I think there a huge difference between a common cold and a mental illness the effects on your life and the stigma that we as as society give it is impactful enough.I have a family member who is battling dementia its not something to be tallied about to describe "not very nice people" He was mean to someone people so what, If I where to interview everyone you've come across in your life ex coworkers, friends, girl or boyfriends there would be some people who said you where mean and a jerk too . 5 sides to almost every story
briandear 14y ago
It's called jealousy. People love to cut others down without having invented anything on their own.

RivieraKid 14y ago

I read Steve Job's biography and a book about sociopaths and SJ was definitely not a sociopath, he was a narcissist.

briandear 14y ago
Don't worry, the one who posted that Steve was a sociopath is apparently a 'hacker' which gives them qualifications in diagnosing mental illnesses based on 2nd and 3rd hand conjuncture without having met the 'patient.'
- hobolobo 14y ago
  You seem to have taken this awfully personally. Is there a reason?
gavanwoolery 14y ago
I don't think he was a sociopath, only that he shared many symptoms. Namely seeming lack of empathy, narcissism, apparent lack of guilt (he almost never apologized, if what people say is true), etc. Like I said I don't know his exact condition.