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I'm not questioning your judgement of Steve's personality. But it surprises me that person like Steve can be so successful. Moreover, how did he recruit and man

by dm8 13y ago

I'm not questioning your judgement of Steve's personality. But it surprises me that person like Steve can be so successful. Moreover, how did he recruit and manage so many world class developers and designers? Not once. But thrice - Apple, NeXT and Pixar. What made Steve so successful when everyone who has worked with him thinks he was a jerk! I read his stories at - http://folklore.org/ http://folklore.org/ And he looks inspirational as well as jerk. But most of these stories are around creation of Mac. By that time, Apple was quite successful. I'm genuinely curios about how did he manage to recruit first 10 employees if he had terrible inter-personal skills.

omegaham 13y ago
Have a good enough idea and a vision of how you can accomplish it, and you can find those 10 people regardless of how mean you are. After you succeed, you'll have thousands of people chomping at the bit to be associated with you, even if you're an asshole. Success makes everything okay, just like failure makes nothing okay.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > Have a good enough idea and a vision of how you can accomplish it, and you can find those 10 people regardless of how mean you are. Steve Jobs didn't have the ideas. The ideas came from others -- Xerox PARC, Steve Wozniak, Jef Raskin, others, and to a lesser extent, me. But he did know how to sell other people's ideas and get people passionate about them. Promotion was his talent. He was the Willy Loman of the late 20th century.
ary 13y ago
I can't speak to the recruiting of staff in the early days of Apple or NeXT, but many of the "world class" people at Pixar got involved before Jobs purchased the company. See: http://www.amazon.com/Pixar-Touch-Vintage-David-Price/dp/0307278298 http://www.amazon.com/Pixar-Touch-Vintage-David-Price/dp/030...
- _Simon 13y ago
  But he had the sense to bankroll and not meddle. He had the courage to let Lassiter, Catmull and Co. to run things their way, which has produced some of the finest story telling and animation of the last 100 years. Did he assemble the team? No. Did he help them achieve greatness? I think Pixars portfolio speaks for itself...
  - ShirtlessRod 13y ago
    So even when he doesn't do anything he still gets credit for the end result?
    - _Simon 13y ago
      He gets and is due some credit. To insinuate that Jobs had nothing to do with Pixar's success is wide of the mark. If what Jobs achieved is so easy, go and do it...
      - ShirtlessRod 13y ago
        Not sure where I said what he achieved was easy, but feel free to keep putting words in my mouth. Your comment was insinuating that the success of Pixar's portfolio was somehow a testament to Jobs. Would it really have been any different had they gotten funding from a completely different source? You even said he didn't "meddle", so other than a financial investment, any credit awarded him for the quality of their work should be minimal. There are plenty of things he can and should get credit for -- we don't need to retroactively add more.
        _Simon 13y ago
        Get over yourself. Your glib dismissal (incorrectly) assumes that Jobs' contribution was merely financial and therefore completely without merit. My comment was that his bankrolling of Pixar, as well as the foresight not to meddle where he wasn't needed, helped them achieve great things, for which he deserves some credit. He also handled the business end - negotiations with Disney etc - that gave Pixar the audience. Since Lassiter has pretty much said that without Jobs the would be we're they are today says it all. Too many are far too quick to dismiss what he man achieved in a relatively short time.
elwin 13y ago
Interpersonal skills are not a one-dimensional quantity. You and the OP are saying Steve Jobs was terrible at making people happy. That's different from making people do what he wanted, an area in which he was far from terribly unskilled.
- lutusp 13y ago
  Yes, true. The same could be said about a certain notorious German. :)
lutusp 13y ago
> But most of these stories are around creation of Mac. By that time, Apple was quite successful. No, not true. Remember that, at the time of the Mac's introduction, the chapter just ending included the sad stories of the Apple /// -- a terrible design and very bad decision on Jobs' part -- and the failed design of the Lisa computer, an obvious Mac predecessor that just didn't work out and another bad Jobs decision. This means the Mac introduction would likely make or break Apple. The Mac introduction was the turning point for Apple. Had it failed, Apple might also have failed. > What made Steve so successful when everyone who has worked with him thinks he was a jerk! That's easy to answer -- chance. What are the chances that someone with terrible interpersonal skills will happen to be colocated with a time and place of technological inevitability? Let's say that chance is p (p = probability). Not an easy number to compute but very small. Now how many opportunities (n) exist for such a juxtaposition? That runs into the tens of thousands to the millions, depending on which criteria we accept and how much time we allow. Let's say for the sake of argument that the probability p (for a perfectly unsuitable person to be at the right place at the right time) is equal to 10^-6 and the number of opportunities n is equal to 10^6. On that basis, the chance (c) for exactly one such occurrence is (using the binomial theorem): c = nCk p^k (1-p)^(n-k) = nCk (10^-6)^k (1-10^6)^(n-k) = 0.3678 ( nCk = n! / k!(n-k)! ) The probability for one or more successes in that same scenario: c = sum(nCk p^k (1-p)^(n-k),k,1,oo) = 0.63212 Not at all unlikely. People who describe Jobs as a twisted but essential genius, and assert that it's the only possible explanation, don't understand probability.
- pifflesnort 13y ago
  People who believe in proving 'technical inevitability' via probability don't understand shipping a product, from conception, to funding, development, and marketing. People with genuine vision inspire others to lift their work above mediocrity; to look beyond themselves at a broader vision of the world. If all it took to ship great products was consensus decision making by smart, highly technical people, then we'd have had be year of Linux on the desktop by now.
  - lutusp 13y ago
    > People who believe in proving 'technical inevitability' via probability don't understand shipping a product, from conception, to funding, development, and marketing. Let me turn that argument around. Every example of a company, employees, management and corporate style, and other similar issues, are subject to probability analysis, and probability explains and/or influences more issues than most people realize.
hcarvalhoalves 13y ago
> I'm not questioning your judgement of Steve's personality. But it surprises me that person like Steve can be so successful. Moreover, how did he recruit and manage so many world class developers and designers? Because he attracted insecure people who would work their asses of on his ideas? That's my theory. Reading about Steve Jobs, one can find he exhibited psychopath traits, and it's known this kind of personality fascinates some people, who are then willing to follow almost blindly, even if they are shouted to or treated badly (in fact, this reinforces the bond). Just look up how many famous psychopaths in jail receive letters from all around world of people who worship them, would marry them, etc.

by dm8 13y ago

omegaham 13y ago

Have a good enough idea and a vision of how you can accomplish it, and you can find those 10 people regardless of how mean you are. After you succeed, you'll have thousands of people chomping at the bit to be associated with you, even if you're an asshole. Success makes everything okay, just like failure makes nothing okay.

lutusp 13y ago
> Have a good enough idea and a vision of how you can accomplish it, and you can find those 10 people regardless of how mean you are. Steve Jobs didn't have the ideas. The ideas came from others -- Xerox PARC, Steve Wozniak, Jef Raskin, others, and to a lesser extent, me. But he did know how to sell other people's ideas and get people passionate about them. Promotion was his talent. He was the Willy Loman of the late 20th century.

ary 13y ago

I can't speak to the recruiting of staff in the early days of Apple or NeXT, but many of the "world class" people at Pixar got involved before Jobs purchased the company. See: http://www.amazon.com/Pixar-Touch-Vintage-David-Price/dp/0307278298 http://www.amazon.com/Pixar-Touch-Vintage-David-Price/dp/030...

_Simon 13y ago
But he had the sense to bankroll and not meddle. He had the courage to let Lassiter, Catmull and Co. to run things their way, which has produced some of the finest story telling and animation of the last 100 years. Did he assemble the team? No. Did he help them achieve greatness? I think Pixars portfolio speaks for itself...
- ShirtlessRod 13y ago
  So even when he doesn't do anything he still gets credit for the end result?
  - _Simon 13y ago
    He gets and is due some credit. To insinuate that Jobs had nothing to do with Pixar's success is wide of the mark. If what Jobs achieved is so easy, go and do it...
    - ShirtlessRod 13y ago
      Not sure where I said what he achieved was easy, but feel free to keep putting words in my mouth. Your comment was insinuating that the success of Pixar's portfolio was somehow a testament to Jobs. Would it really have been any different had they gotten funding from a completely different source? You even said he didn't "meddle", so other than a financial investment, any credit awarded him for the quality of their work should be minimal. There are plenty of things he can and should get credit for -- we don't need to retroactively add more.
      - _Simon 13y ago
        Get over yourself. Your glib dismissal (incorrectly) assumes that Jobs' contribution was merely financial and therefore completely without merit. My comment was that his bankrolling of Pixar, as well as the foresight not to meddle where he wasn't needed, helped them achieve great things, for which he deserves some credit. He also handled the business end - negotiations with Disney etc - that gave Pixar the audience. Since Lassiter has pretty much said that without Jobs the would be we're they are today says it all. Too many are far too quick to dismiss what he man achieved in a relatively short time.

elwin 13y ago

Interpersonal skills are not a one-dimensional quantity. You and the OP are saying Steve Jobs was terrible at making people happy. That's different from making people do what he wanted, an area in which he was far from terribly unskilled.

lutusp 13y ago
Yes, true. The same could be said about a certain notorious German. :)

lutusp 13y ago

> But most of these stories are around creation of Mac. By that time, Apple was quite successful. No, not true. Remember that, at the time of the Mac's introduction, the chapter just ending included the sad stories of the Apple /// -- a terrible design and very bad decision on Jobs' part -- and the failed design of the Lisa computer, an obvious Mac predecessor that just didn't work out and another bad Jobs decision. This means the Mac introduction would likely make or break Apple. The Mac introduction was the turning point for Apple. Had it failed, Apple might also have failed. > What made Steve so successful when everyone who has worked with him thinks he was a jerk! That's easy to answer -- chance. What are the chances that someone with terrible interpersonal skills will happen to be colocated with a time and place of technological inevitability? Let's say that chance is p (p = probability). Not an easy number to compute but very small. Now how many opportunities (n) exist for such a juxtaposition? That runs into the tens of thousands to the millions, depending on which criteria we accept and how much time we allow. Let's say for the sake of argument that the probability p (for a perfectly unsuitable person to be at the right place at the right time) is equal to 10^-6 and the number of opportunities n is equal to 10^6. On that basis, the chance (c) for exactly one such occurrence is (using the binomial theorem): c = nCk p^k (1-p)^(n-k) = nCk (10^-6)^k (1-10^6)^(n-k) = 0.3678 ( nCk = n! / k!(n-k)! ) The probability for one or more successes in that same scenario: c = sum(nCk p^k (1-p)^(n-k),k,1,oo) = 0.63212 Not at all unlikely. People who describe Jobs as a twisted but essential genius, and assert that it's the only possible explanation, don't understand probability.

pifflesnort 13y ago
People who believe in proving 'technical inevitability' via probability don't understand shipping a product, from conception, to funding, development, and marketing. People with genuine vision inspire others to lift their work above mediocrity; to look beyond themselves at a broader vision of the world. If all it took to ship great products was consensus decision making by smart, highly technical people, then we'd have had be year of Linux on the desktop by now.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > People who believe in proving 'technical inevitability' via probability don't understand shipping a product, from conception, to funding, development, and marketing. Let me turn that argument around. Every example of a company, employees, management and corporate style, and other similar issues, are subject to probability analysis, and probability explains and/or influences more issues than most people realize.

hcarvalhoalves 13y ago

> I'm not questioning your judgement of Steve's personality. But it surprises me that person like Steve can be so successful. Moreover, how did he recruit and manage so many world class developers and designers? Because he attracted insecure people who would work their asses of on his ideas? That's my theory. Reading about Steve Jobs, one can find he exhibited psychopath traits, and it's known this kind of personality fascinates some people, who are then willing to follow almost blindly, even if they are shouted to or treated badly (in fact, this reinforces the bond). Just look up how many famous psychopaths in jail receive letters from all around world of people who worship them, would marry them, etc.