4 ms·

I'm not sure I fully understand this, is this just for SEO? Why not run the page in phantomJS, which is what we do at https://circleci.com https://circleci.com,

by pbiggar 14y ago

I'm not sure I fully understand this, is this just for SEO? Why not run the page in phantomJS, which is what we do at https://circleci.com https://circleci.com, and what meteor apps do, and any others?

frontendbeauty 14y ago
SEO was our first concern, but then we realized performance was the big win. Serving the user a full page of HTML rather than waiting for JS to download before rendering HTML makes a big difference, especially on high-latency or low-bandwidth connections (mobile). EDIT: We decided against using something like PhantomJS or node-chimera because why deal with a DOM if you don't have to? DOM is complicated and slow, compared to string-based templating. Plus, it's another moving part, another process to keep up and running. The Meteor guys aren't too excited about the PhantomJS approach either, and IIRC they'd like to be able to serve HTML without firing up a DOM.
- msoad 14y ago
  Does this mean Rendrjs applications will run in a JavaScript disabled browser? That would be a big win!
  - frontendbeauty 14y ago
    Yep! Because links use full URLs which get intercepted by JavaScript, if JS is disabled, you can still navigate around the app, getting full HTML from the server. Of course, any client-specific code wouldn't run (slideshows, etc).
    - jonny_eh 14y ago
      So far, this is the most convincing argument I've heard for Rendr.
      - bilalq 14y ago
        I'm a little confused here. Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but how does that make Rendr any different from any other server-side framework that responds with HTML?
        WickyNilliams 14y ago
        Because you're using the same JavaScript code for rendering on either the client or the server.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- pbiggar 14y ago
  Cool stuff, thanks for the response!
- aristus 14y ago
  How do you measure performance? I'm interested specifically in where & how you instrument, and how you collect the data.
bfirsh 14y ago
Or Zombie, which is way faster than PhantomJS: https://github.com/bfirsh/otter https://github.com/bfirsh/otter

by pbiggar 14y ago

frontendbeauty 14y ago

SEO was our first concern, but then we realized performance was the big win. Serving the user a full page of HTML rather than waiting for JS to download before rendering HTML makes a big difference, especially on high-latency or low-bandwidth connections (mobile). EDIT: We decided against using something like PhantomJS or node-chimera because why deal with a DOM if you don't have to? DOM is complicated and slow, compared to string-based templating. Plus, it's another moving part, another process to keep up and running. The Meteor guys aren't too excited about the PhantomJS approach either, and IIRC they'd like to be able to serve HTML without firing up a DOM.

msoad 14y ago
Does this mean Rendrjs applications will run in a JavaScript disabled browser? That would be a big win!
- frontendbeauty 14y ago
  Yep! Because links use full URLs which get intercepted by JavaScript, if JS is disabled, you can still navigate around the app, getting full HTML from the server. Of course, any client-specific code wouldn't run (slideshows, etc).
  - jonny_eh 14y ago
    So far, this is the most convincing argument I've heard for Rendr.
    - bilalq 14y ago
      I'm a little confused here. Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but how does that make Rendr any different from any other server-side framework that responds with HTML?
      - WickyNilliams 14y ago
        Because you're using the same JavaScript code for rendering on either the client or the server.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
pbiggar 14y ago
Cool stuff, thanks for the response!
aristus 14y ago
How do you measure performance? I'm interested specifically in where & how you instrument, and how you collect the data.

bfirsh 14y ago

Or Zombie, which is way faster than PhantomJS: https://github.com/bfirsh/otter https://github.com/bfirsh/otter