5 ms·

There are lots of great programmers in the United States, they just want to be paid more than immigrants, so the companies lobby congress to allow them to impor

by pj 18y ago

There are lots of great programmers in the United States, they just want to be paid more than immigrants, so the companies lobby congress to allow them to import more cheap softare factories. It's the same at every level of society.

dustineichler 18y ago
You speak the truth, but hesitate to enumerate on the reality.
jey 18y ago
Sure, cheap idiots shouldn't be allowed to immigrate into the USA. I'm totally against the trend of mass produced know-nothing "programmers" who were imported into the US in the late 90's and early 2000's. But there's a lot of legitimately intelligent and capable people out there, and it's in our best interest to try and get them to play for Team USA.
boundlessdreamz 18y ago
If you had actually bothered to read the article, you will find that the person featured has been educated in US from when he was 14. He went to Harvard. Now do you want such a person to be just sent back because he is an "immigrant" or that his skill and intelligence be recognized and make it such that it is easy for him to work in US, contributing to the US economy. The US attracted the best and the brightest. If you insist on sending them back because they are "immigrants" then the loss is not just theirs.From the article "Many innovators in Silicon Valley come from overseas; 42 percent of engineers with master’s degrees and 60 percent of those with engineering Ph.D.’s in the United States are foreign-born." Do you know why Chinese and Indians population in Universities are increasing? Because in those cultures being a geek is cool, unlike in US. In China and US, the topper in the school is the super star unlike in US where it will be the college football captain. The toppers from such places come to US because the US universities are far ahead in higher education. But if you send these people back, this lead in education will slowly evaporate as the best students go back to their country instead of staying on and becoming entrepreneurs and professors.
- boundlessdreamz 18y ago
  Thinking about it, the founder visa idea that pg proposed is aimed at the kind of people like the guy featured in the article.
- code_devil 18y ago
  I came in 2001(18 yrs) for my BS in Comp Sc and I am currently in my H1-B. The Green Card process is long and far away, so I don't even think about it. However, I see a few drawbacks of being on H1: i. It hampers my capability to jump jobs to risky startups, because if that startup goes bust, I need to find a job in 2 months to stay in the country. Especially with a recessionary season, it adds to the risk while your existing employer is pretty strong. ii. I am always looking for avenues to work on Ideas, and I do that too. But, because I need to be employed to maintain my Visa Status, I can only devote my evenings and weekends. iii. I am also worried about the Laws (Immigration and other) that may prevent me from having my own venture etc. I have been in the US for close to 10 years(8 years now and 2 years when I was a Kid). So, I have lived most of my decision making, understanding the world, ups/downs of life here in the US and I feel really connected to this country and really love it. I even pay good amount of Tax dollars plus work for a US company that works towards the growth of the US economy even in this downturn. But my fate still lies on the Immigration Policy. Another point I wanted to mention was about my experience in College. In my freshman year I realized hanging out with kids that went to Highschool here that being Smart in school equates to being a Geek, which is not considered Hip and Cool. On the contrary back home in India where I grew up, being smart(not necessarily Geek) was considered Cool and everyone wants to be friends with the Smart Kid. Luckily, it worked out good for me as I had a solid academic background from India and then had cool friends out here.
  - Hexstream 18y ago
    I'm Curious about where your Habit of Capitalizing so many Words come from?...
  - furburger 18y ago
    okay come on you have totally warped expectations of what a work visa provides. work visas are not created to allow you to wonder silicon valley looking for cool startups to join. nor should it. thats what residency visas are for. a work visa should be tied to an employer. you seem to think you need a work visa in order to get a residency visa...no. tens of thousands of people every year become US citizens simply because they want to.
jamiequint 18y ago
This is pretty much true at any level of supply (increase supply and the price will drop). You could just as easily argue that if more students study engineering its hurts those currently in the industry, that alone is not a reason to be against it. From talking to my other friends with startups in the Bay Area it is apparent that there are not enough good engineers here. I had a conversation last weekend with one of my friends who always struggles to find good Ruby engineers, even at above market prices, and using every recruitment method available. As the founder of a company originally started to help companies hire technical talent I've seen this firsthand. Everyone is frustrated with recruiters piping them lots of unqualified resumes, Dice, Monster, and Craigslist also provide high volume, but often low quality. Even the niche boards are underperforming. If there are really "lots of great programmers" in the US where are they? I know a lot of companies around here who would gladly pay $150k+ for a truly "great" programmer, if they could only find them. Maybe part of the problem is the vast difference between "decent" and "great" in terms of on-the-job performance and the unwillingness of many companies around here to settle for less.
- mynameishere 18y ago
  You could just as easily argue that if more students study engineering its hurts those currently in the industry, that alone is not a reason to be against it. You're so wrong. The whole purpose of bar exams and similar certification requirements in most trades is to limit supply. Almost every profession does this in one way or the other, except engineers.
  - jamiequint 18y ago
    It limits unqualified supply, I'm not against that. The bar doesn't set a hard limit on number of new lawyers per year AFAIK.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
- menloparkbum 18y ago
  I know a lot of companies around here who would gladly pay $150k+ for a truly "great" programmer, if they could only find them. People say this all the time but $150K is a rare salary for a programmer. You have to work at Google for years to be paid that much as a base salary. If a company is offering $150K but can't hire anyone it usually means the company sucks. I.e. it's an overfunded VC time bomb, a boring telecom/security job or something semi-shady.

by pj 18y ago

dustineichler 18y ago

You speak the truth, but hesitate to enumerate on the reality.

jey 18y ago

Sure, cheap idiots shouldn't be allowed to immigrate into the USA. I'm totally against the trend of mass produced know-nothing "programmers" who were imported into the US in the late 90's and early 2000's. But there's a lot of legitimately intelligent and capable people out there, and it's in our best interest to try and get them to play for Team USA.

boundlessdreamz 18y ago

If you had actually bothered to read the article, you will find that the person featured has been educated in US from when he was 14. He went to Harvard. Now do you want such a person to be just sent back because he is an "immigrant" or that his skill and intelligence be recognized and make it such that it is easy for him to work in US, contributing to the US economy. The US attracted the best and the brightest. If you insist on sending them back because they are "immigrants" then the loss is not just theirs.From the article "Many innovators in Silicon Valley come from overseas; 42 percent of engineers with master’s degrees and 60 percent of those with engineering Ph.D.’s in the United States are foreign-born." Do you know why Chinese and Indians population in Universities are increasing? Because in those cultures being a geek is cool, unlike in US. In China and US, the topper in the school is the super star unlike in US where it will be the college football captain. The toppers from such places come to US because the US universities are far ahead in higher education. But if you send these people back, this lead in education will slowly evaporate as the best students go back to their country instead of staying on and becoming entrepreneurs and professors.

boundlessdreamz 18y ago
Thinking about it, the founder visa idea that pg proposed is aimed at the kind of people like the guy featured in the article.
code_devil 18y ago
I came in 2001(18 yrs) for my BS in Comp Sc and I am currently in my H1-B. The Green Card process is long and far away, so I don't even think about it. However, I see a few drawbacks of being on H1: i. It hampers my capability to jump jobs to risky startups, because if that startup goes bust, I need to find a job in 2 months to stay in the country. Especially with a recessionary season, it adds to the risk while your existing employer is pretty strong. ii. I am always looking for avenues to work on Ideas, and I do that too. But, because I need to be employed to maintain my Visa Status, I can only devote my evenings and weekends. iii. I am also worried about the Laws (Immigration and other) that may prevent me from having my own venture etc. I have been in the US for close to 10 years(8 years now and 2 years when I was a Kid). So, I have lived most of my decision making, understanding the world, ups/downs of life here in the US and I feel really connected to this country and really love it. I even pay good amount of Tax dollars plus work for a US company that works towards the growth of the US economy even in this downturn. But my fate still lies on the Immigration Policy. Another point I wanted to mention was about my experience in College. In my freshman year I realized hanging out with kids that went to Highschool here that being Smart in school equates to being a Geek, which is not considered Hip and Cool. On the contrary back home in India where I grew up, being smart(not necessarily Geek) was considered Cool and everyone wants to be friends with the Smart Kid. Luckily, it worked out good for me as I had a solid academic background from India and then had cool friends out here.
- Hexstream 18y ago
  I'm Curious about where your Habit of Capitalizing so many Words come from?...
- furburger 18y ago
  okay come on you have totally warped expectations of what a work visa provides. work visas are not created to allow you to wonder silicon valley looking for cool startups to join. nor should it. thats what residency visas are for. a work visa should be tied to an employer. you seem to think you need a work visa in order to get a residency visa...no. tens of thousands of people every year become US citizens simply because they want to.

jamiequint 18y ago

This is pretty much true at any level of supply (increase supply and the price will drop). You could just as easily argue that if more students study engineering its hurts those currently in the industry, that alone is not a reason to be against it. From talking to my other friends with startups in the Bay Area it is apparent that there are not enough good engineers here. I had a conversation last weekend with one of my friends who always struggles to find good Ruby engineers, even at above market prices, and using every recruitment method available. As the founder of a company originally started to help companies hire technical talent I've seen this firsthand. Everyone is frustrated with recruiters piping them lots of unqualified resumes, Dice, Monster, and Craigslist also provide high volume, but often low quality. Even the niche boards are underperforming. If there are really "lots of great programmers" in the US where are they? I know a lot of companies around here who would gladly pay $150k+ for a truly "great" programmer, if they could only find them. Maybe part of the problem is the vast difference between "decent" and "great" in terms of on-the-job performance and the unwillingness of many companies around here to settle for less.

mynameishere 18y ago
You could just as easily argue that if more students study engineering its hurts those currently in the industry, that alone is not a reason to be against it. You're so wrong. The whole purpose of bar exams and similar certification requirements in most trades is to limit supply. Almost every profession does this in one way or the other, except engineers.
- jamiequint 18y ago
  It limits unqualified supply, I'm not against that. The bar doesn't set a hard limit on number of new lawyers per year AFAIK.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
menloparkbum 18y ago
I know a lot of companies around here who would gladly pay $150k+ for a truly "great" programmer, if they could only find them. People say this all the time but $150K is a rare salary for a programmer. You have to work at Google for years to be paid that much as a base salary. If a company is offering $150K but can't hire anyone it usually means the company sucks. I.e. it's an overfunded VC time bomb, a boring telecom/security job or something semi-shady.