4 ms·

It might be why it sucks, but if vigilante justice, or in this case looking at photos and pointing out who had backpacks resulted in the capture of the true bom

It might be why it sucks, but if vigilante justice, or in this case looking at photos and pointing out who had backpacks resulted in the capture of the true bomber more quickly, than the unfortunate consequences for the people temporarily named by a subreddit who's existence would be hard to locate without media attention is just not significant enough to outweigh the possibility of them figuring it out before they got on a flight etc. If we have a terrorist group claiming responsibility and showing new photos with the terrorists in another country in the next 24-48 hours, the FBI failed. It doesn't matter if we eventually drone strike them, they failed and should look in to crowd sourcing the photo investigation in the future. The fact that highly irresponsible news agencies printed those photos is completely separate from reddit and 4Chan talking about it. Ideally there should be an FBI sanctioned system which allows this type of work. For those that point out the man the FBI accused in Atlanta, keep in mind, that was way, way, way more drawn out than a 24 hour period. Now, I'll also admit, I could be wrong, maybe they don't find them, maybe they don't post photos of who they think it is and these guys aren't cleared by the FBI, maybe it turns out that they are harassed etc. The internet is new, and I feel like we can figure out a way to do this the right way.

illuminate 14y ago
"It might be why it sucks, but if vigilante justice, or in this case looking at photos and pointing out who had backpacks resulted in the capture of the true bomber more quickly, than the unfortunate consequences for the people temporarily named by a subreddit who's existence would be hard to locate without media attention is just not significant enough to outweigh the possibility of them figuring it out before they got on a flight etc. Sounds vaguely like how the US justifies torture.
- wtvanhest 14y ago
  The logic you refer to is "the ends justify the means"... but I assure you that I considered both in my statement. There are definitely arguments to be made that say I am wrong.
- alan_cx 14y ago
  Exactly. Worse still, it justifies terrorism too. A terrorist will argue that sacrifice is worth it to achieve their goals, which they see as justice in their terms. We have to be better than that, or there is literally no point bothering. We just do their work for them. People say Islamic terrorists hate American freedoms. So how come Americans give them up so easily citing the likes of Islamic terrorism? It just goes round and round, bomb, less freedom, bomb, less freedom, until you have less freedom than they have. Madness. Some one had to stop the spiral.
lostlogin 14y ago
It does matter if the bomber is found and targeted by drone strikes. That is terrorism in itself and I see it as worse than being killed or injured by a random bombing. There is no recourse and nothing a victim or their family can do. The drone strike happens and no one who sympathises can do anything to help you.
bgdfgfsgsdsf 14y ago
The right way to do it would be for the FBI to have a secure crowdsourcing platform that volunteers can work on after major criminal or terrorist incidents. Volunteers should be required (as a condition of volunteering) not to discuss their results with other people. Only the raw classification and identification data is valuable here. The feedback cycles created by public discourse and news media are terribly flawed and often very harmful. It would be much better to use an automated back end to process the data, seek further verification and then ultimately bring it to the attention of human investigators.
ahoyhere 14y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstones_formulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstones_formulation "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer", ...as expressed by the English jurist William Blackstone in his seminal work, Commentaries on the Laws of England, published in the 1760s. It is worth note that the actual numbers are not generally seen as important, so much as the idea that the State should not cause undue or mistaken harm "just in case". Historically, the details of the ratio change, but the message that government and the courts must err on the side of innocence is constant.

illuminate 14y ago

"It might be why it sucks, but if vigilante justice, or in this case looking at photos and pointing out who had backpacks resulted in the capture of the true bomber more quickly, than the unfortunate consequences for the people temporarily named by a subreddit who's existence would be hard to locate without media attention is just not significant enough to outweigh the possibility of them figuring it out before they got on a flight etc. Sounds vaguely like how the US justifies torture.

wtvanhest 14y ago
The logic you refer to is "the ends justify the means"... but I assure you that I considered both in my statement. There are definitely arguments to be made that say I am wrong.
alan_cx 14y ago
Exactly. Worse still, it justifies terrorism too. A terrorist will argue that sacrifice is worth it to achieve their goals, which they see as justice in their terms. We have to be better than that, or there is literally no point bothering. We just do their work for them. People say Islamic terrorists hate American freedoms. So how come Americans give them up so easily citing the likes of Islamic terrorism? It just goes round and round, bomb, less freedom, bomb, less freedom, until you have less freedom than they have. Madness. Some one had to stop the spiral.

lostlogin 14y ago

It does matter if the bomber is found and targeted by drone strikes. That is terrorism in itself and I see it as worse than being killed or injured by a random bombing. There is no recourse and nothing a victim or their family can do. The drone strike happens and no one who sympathises can do anything to help you.

bgdfgfsgsdsf 14y ago

The right way to do it would be for the FBI to have a secure crowdsourcing platform that volunteers can work on after major criminal or terrorist incidents. Volunteers should be required (as a condition of volunteering) not to discuss their results with other people. Only the raw classification and identification data is valuable here. The feedback cycles created by public discourse and news media are terribly flawed and often very harmful. It would be much better to use an automated back end to process the data, seek further verification and then ultimately bring it to the attention of human investigators.

ahoyhere 14y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstones_formulation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstones_formulation "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer", ...as expressed by the English jurist William Blackstone in his seminal work, Commentaries on the Laws of England, published in the 1760s. It is worth note that the actual numbers are not generally seen as important, so much as the idea that the State should not cause undue or mistaken harm "just in case". Historically, the details of the ratio change, but the message that government and the courts must err on the side of innocence is constant.