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> And this is why vigilante justice sucks. a) I can't speak for 4chan, but the Reddit thread has been full of counterarguments, doubts, discussions of likely i

> And this is why vigilante justice sucks. a) I can't speak for 4chan, but the Reddit thread has been full of counterarguments, doubts, discussions of likely innocence as well as guilt. Some of the most upvoted threads are all about Devil's Advocacy and finding evidence of innocence: http://www.reddit.com/r/findbostonbombers/comments/1cjc30/devils_advocacy_thread/ http://www.reddit.com/r/findbostonbombers/comments/1cjc30/de... With that, similar threads, the rules imposed, it's following exactly the textbook approach to avoid groupthink. b) Meanwhile, we have the case studies of Richard Jewell, Steven Hatfill, the Central Park Five, among others. Those were not cases of "vigilante justice." Those happened because no one bothered to check the math of the authorities. The internet can be an unruly mob, sure, but it's simply inaccurate to claim the internet can ONLY be an unruly mob. Or why are any of us even here?

alan_cx 14y ago
Unruly mobs tend to be made up of perfectly normal people, who never intended to be an unruly mob in the first place. It is remarkable hoe a group of people can suddenly act as one coherent unit. Not just in thought, if you observe a mob form the air they make patterns like migrating birds to.
- Macsenour 14y ago
  I'm pretty sure there's an OLD Twilight Zone episode about this very topic.
  - krapp 14y ago
    You might be thinking of this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_S...
- lostlogin 14y ago
  Nazi Germany.
  - alan_cx 14y ago
    I was thinking of Northern Ireland, but yeah, Nazi German will do.
untog 14y ago
the Reddit thread has been full of counterarguments, doubts, discussions of likely innocence as well as guilt. And all that nuance is immediately lost once someone posts the photo on Facebook or Twitter. Unfortunately, that's the issue at hand.
- brownbat 14y ago
  If the cautious stay silent for fear of the careless, then they cede a monopoly on speech to the careless. Aka, the remedy for bad discussion is more discussion, not less. Some may argue against this. Some may use the internet to claim that internet discussions are harmful, but not without a certain degree of inconsistency between their words and their actions. A natural response might be, "Yes, but I'm RIGHT, of course I should speak..." but the trouble is, no one knows whether they're right or not without submitting their ideas to the crowd for a full and proper vetting.
  - yew 14y ago
    No one knows whether they're right or not after submitting their ideas to the crowd for a full and proper vetting, either. 'The crowd' is not a substitute for experimentation and investigation. Noticing that someone looks suspicious in a picture and reporting it to the proper authorities (preferably a division thereof known for evenhandedness) so that they can look at all sides of the issue is reasonable. Someone has to handle crimes, and whoever that someone is will always be human. Noticing that someone looks suspicious and posting their picture on Facebook with an accusatory tagline is entirely indefensible. It's bad enough when their are no proper authorities.
brown9-2 14y ago
Even with those counterarguments and discussion, there is something to be said for the unfairness of publicly discussing whether or not this kid has anything to do with the case. For a long time now this event will be associated with his name. Even if 99 comments out of 100 on Reddit or whatever other forum are doubtful, there is still the fact that his name has been publicized incorrectly - which would not have happened in the absence of a public witch hunt.
- hkmurakami 14y ago
  I really hope this doesn't affect him 5 years from now when employers are googling his name :(
ars 14y ago
> Meanwhile, we have the case studies of.... The umbrella man is my favorite falsely accused bystander - I mean he looked SO GUILTY!

alan_cx 14y ago

Unruly mobs tend to be made up of perfectly normal people, who never intended to be an unruly mob in the first place. It is remarkable hoe a group of people can suddenly act as one coherent unit. Not just in thought, if you observe a mob form the air they make patterns like migrating birds to.

Macsenour 14y ago
I'm pretty sure there's an OLD Twilight Zone episode about this very topic.
- krapp 14y ago
  You might be thinking of this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_S...
lostlogin 14y ago
Nazi Germany.
- alan_cx 14y ago
  I was thinking of Northern Ireland, but yeah, Nazi German will do.

untog 14y ago

the Reddit thread has been full of counterarguments, doubts, discussions of likely innocence as well as guilt. And all that nuance is immediately lost once someone posts the photo on Facebook or Twitter. Unfortunately, that's the issue at hand.

brownbat 14y ago
If the cautious stay silent for fear of the careless, then they cede a monopoly on speech to the careless. Aka, the remedy for bad discussion is more discussion, not less. Some may argue against this. Some may use the internet to claim that internet discussions are harmful, but not without a certain degree of inconsistency between their words and their actions. A natural response might be, "Yes, but I'm RIGHT, of course I should speak..." but the trouble is, no one knows whether they're right or not without submitting their ideas to the crowd for a full and proper vetting.
- yew 14y ago
  No one knows whether they're right or not after submitting their ideas to the crowd for a full and proper vetting, either. 'The crowd' is not a substitute for experimentation and investigation. Noticing that someone looks suspicious in a picture and reporting it to the proper authorities (preferably a division thereof known for evenhandedness) so that they can look at all sides of the issue is reasonable. Someone has to handle crimes, and whoever that someone is will always be human. Noticing that someone looks suspicious and posting their picture on Facebook with an accusatory tagline is entirely indefensible. It's bad enough when their are no proper authorities.

brown9-2 14y ago

Even with those counterarguments and discussion, there is something to be said for the unfairness of publicly discussing whether or not this kid has anything to do with the case. For a long time now this event will be associated with his name. Even if 99 comments out of 100 on Reddit or whatever other forum are doubtful, there is still the fact that his name has been publicized incorrectly - which would not have happened in the absence of a public witch hunt.

hkmurakami 14y ago
I really hope this doesn't affect him 5 years from now when employers are googling his name :(

ars 14y ago

> Meanwhile, we have the case studies of.... The umbrella man is my favorite falsely accused bystander - I mean he looked SO GUILTY!