7 ms·

So, to be clear, the teen Salah Barhoun was the guy in the blue tracksuit who some 4chan'ers thought was the bomber. Also called out here: https://news.ycombina

• potatolicious 13y ago
  Unfortunately being doxxed by Reddit (funny how Reddit is known for that these days) isn't a requirement for having some nutcases go off on you: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/bx_idiots_beat_up_arab_in_revenge_76qKozmZwDUpLUbacqqP3O http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/bx_idiots_beat_up_a... Ironically NY Post was one of the "news" sources driving up the hysteria and publishing these photos.
  • rhizome 13y ago
    Where are you getting irony out of the Post's editorial policy?
  • lucisferre 13y ago
    I'd argue being doxxed means some nutcases already did go off on you.
  • jpdoctor 13y ago
    > Ironically NY Post was one of the "news" sources Just as the WSJ published about people in custody, the lesson is clear: Do not bother listening to any Rupert Murdock publication for news. The WSJ should just stick to finance, and the NYP should stick to whatever it is that it does well. (Remind me: What was it that the NYP does well?)
    • deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    • e40 13y ago
      the lesson is clear: Do not bother listening to any Rupert Murdock publication for news. Amen. Everyone, just refuse to follow a link to a Murdock website. Daily Mail. NY Post. WSJ. Are there others?
      • cypherpunks01 13y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_C...
      • brewdad 13y ago
        Murdoch Block extension for Chrome works well. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/murdoch-block/moepiacmhnmbiilhpojodnaopndhddpg?utm_source=chrome-ntp-icon https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/murdoch-block/moep...
      • desas 13y ago
        The daily mail is worth ignoring, it is nothing to do with Rupert Murdoch though - it is mainly owned by Viscount Rothermere
  • ep103 13y ago
    Not ironically, the NY Post is just as bad as the Daily Mail. On the day of the bombing, they were reporting that the bomber had already been arrested. The day after the bombing, they had a picture on their cover of a backpack that was supposedly the bomb... except it wasn't. Today, they had a picture of two middle eastern looking people, who had nothing to do with the bombing. This is par the course for the NY Post. My favorite though, is when I used to do political work, the NY Post would show up to large events, set up a quick photoshoot with paid actors, then leave, and whatever they staged a picture of would be the next day's front page. Fuck the post.
    • pkfrank 13y ago
      Is there no penalty available for flagrantly inaccurate and damaging reporting?
      • rahoulb 13y ago
        Well, in the UK you can complain to the Press Complaints Commission. Headed by the editor of the Daily Mail
      • lostlogin 13y ago
        Steep profits which encourage further moral decline?
    • beedogs 13y ago
      I honestly think all of Rupert Murdoch's newspapers and TV outlets should be taken away from him and destroyed.
  • rbanffy 13y ago
    > Ironically NY Post was one of the "news" sources driving up the hysteria They optimize for units sold, not precise reporting.
  • silverbax88 13y ago
    In cases such as this, I can't help but wonder if the person in the picture has a strong legal case of libel and defamation against the publisher. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, and maybe it's just my personality but if a newspaper tried to ruin my life just to sell newspapers, I'd 'lawyer up' with the intent of owning that newspaper when it was all said and done.
• denzil_correa 13y ago
  This guy was drawn out by the folks at Reddit - r/findbostonbombers. They are only drawing a list of suspects based on visual evidence from the photographs at the event. They are also passing along these tips to the FBI etc. Just in case, these men (called as the Backpack Bros) were cleared by the subreddit way before this name had come out. You can view their analysis here - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgtCl8YvqiBodEl0bkFkR1ZhR3gtZFU5RnRlbzZPS0E&f=true&noheader=false&gid=8 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AgtCl8YvqiBodEl0... In addition, the subreddit have clearly outlined their motivation here in this post - http://www.reddit.com/r/findbostonbombers/comments/1ck5hl/media_outlets_please_stop_making_the_images_of/ http://www.reddit.com/r/findbostonbombers/comments/1ck5hl/me... In this case, it is more a case of lazy and irresponsible journalism than kangaroo justice.
  • bherms 13y ago
    google doc is private
  • anigbrowl 13y ago
    These reports of what went on are almost as confused as speculation about what happened in the bombing. I watched this going on all day yesterday. Certainly, there were many counterarguments and so on, but frankly the Reddit thread was a confused mess, with the same stuff getting posted over and over again, no coherent plan on organizing files by resolution or time, and no schema for IDing people, leading to multiple subthreads like 'I think this guy looks super-fishy' 'Which guy there's 100 people in that photo, who do you mean?' 'In the middle, on the left, once you've seen him you can't un-see him.' I don't think the Reddit community or subreddit moderators were at fault, but their search were nowhere near as well organized as you suggest. What happened in the case of the runner kids is that another forum, AR15.com (dedicated to gun enthusiasts, as you might guess) pretty much decided that these two guys were guilty (based largely on the early photo speculations showing backpacks looking large enough to hold a pressure cooker). then one of the members decided to post on the Facebook page of the teenager in the blue tracksuit, which was then noticed by a Reddit user who was also watching the AR15.com thread (not me). The teen saw the post on his Facebook page, stated that he had nothing to do with it and immediately contacted law enforcement; At this point the subReddit moderator went through and cleaned up the old threads and so forth. IIRC the 'non-suspect' went to a court building or a police station (wherever the investigation HQ is) straight away, and later returned to post an update on his FB page. The ar15.com folks meanwhile ostracized the person who had posted the link on the FB page and convinced themselves that they're all targets now (that community is heavily invested in the idea that it should be Muslim terrorists, presumably because they're feeling sensitive over the gun control issue). I don't mean this as a criticism of the Reddit folks, who were doing their best. I'm posting this more to observe that social media in general does not do that great of job at this kind of thing. EDIT: I think social media and crowds can do a great job of that, but it needs pretty strict.active moderation and a gameplan at the outset. That proceduralism slows down people who want to dive right in and help straight away, but it also helps to eliminate false positives.
• brownbat 13y ago
  > And this is why vigilante justice sucks. a) I can't speak for 4chan, but the Reddit thread has been full of counterarguments, doubts, discussions of likely innocence as well as guilt. Some of the most upvoted threads are all about Devil's Advocacy and finding evidence of innocence: http://www.reddit.com/r/findbostonbombers/comments/1cjc30/devils_advocacy_thread/ http://www.reddit.com/r/findbostonbombers/comments/1cjc30/de... With that, similar threads, the rules imposed, it's following exactly the textbook approach to avoid groupthink. b) Meanwhile, we have the case studies of Richard Jewell, Steven Hatfill, the Central Park Five, among others. Those were not cases of "vigilante justice." Those happened because no one bothered to check the math of the authorities. The internet can be an unruly mob, sure, but it's simply inaccurate to claim the internet can ONLY be an unruly mob. Or why are any of us even here?
  • alan_cx 13y ago
    Unruly mobs tend to be made up of perfectly normal people, who never intended to be an unruly mob in the first place. It is remarkable hoe a group of people can suddenly act as one coherent unit. Not just in thought, if you observe a mob form the air they make patterns like migrating birds to.
    • Macsenour 13y ago
      I'm pretty sure there's an OLD Twilight Zone episode about this very topic.
      • krapp 13y ago
        You might be thinking of this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_Street http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monsters_Are_Due_on_Maple_S...
    • lostlogin 13y ago
      Nazi Germany.
      • 13y ago
• raldi 13y ago
  > Salah Barhoun was the guy [who] Redditors thought was the bomber Citation needed. I saw no such declaration on reddit -- just that he seemed to be one of the dozens of somewhat interesting people worth looking at a little more closely. It was the mass media that took this and turned it into "OMG REDDIT SAYS THEY FOUND THE BOMBER!"
  • clicks 13y ago
    > Citation needed. I guess I am proof. And so is 'jaredsohn (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5562975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5562975 -- "Closer up view of person in OP (includes shot of face): http://i.imgur.com/BBxplgk.jpg http://i.imgur.com/BBxplgk.jpg " -- it was his interpretation from Reddit comments that Salah was one possible suspect). There's a lot of truth to 'untog's comment up above that no matter the nuance and diligence being practiced, Reddit is still an open and public forum and no amount of nuance is worth anything when stuff leaks out of Reddit.
    • raldi 13y ago
      > it was his interpretation from Reddit comments that Salah was one possible suspect It's a huuuuuuge backpedal to go all the way from "reddit thought this guy was the bomber" to "one person on HN saw a reddit comment and it made him think that the guy was one possible suspect". > no amount of nuance is worth anything when stuff leaks out of Reddit Sure, but then the blame needs to be placed at the feet of the person who misrepresents the reddit post -- not on reddit itself. Speaking of which, misrepresenting reddit is exactly what your comment at the top of this thread is doing. You should edit it.
      • clicks 13y ago
        Salah was wearing a bright tracksuit that stuck out, and I think he's got a pretty memorable face -- I would bet a good amount that when a day or two passes by, what people will remember would be that he was one of the suspects. The association in their minds has already been made. And, there's a non-zero chance at that point that someone will misread the post, or recall it inaccurately, there's a chance that someone might attack him in an attempt to catch him or something. Public, vigilante justice is bad, full stop. I've (reluctantly) edited the comment.
• mcantelon 13y ago
  >And this is why vigilante justice sucks. Where's the "vigilante justice" you speak of? I see crowdsourced investigation and a newspaper that, more or less, made something up (that the feds seek the two men).
• wtvanhest 13y ago
  It might be why it sucks, but if vigilante justice, or in this case looking at photos and pointing out who had backpacks resulted in the capture of the true bomber more quickly, than the unfortunate consequences for the people temporarily named by a subreddit who's existence would be hard to locate without media attention is just not significant enough to outweigh the possibility of them figuring it out before they got on a flight etc. If we have a terrorist group claiming responsibility and showing new photos with the terrorists in another country in the next 24-48 hours, the FBI failed. It doesn't matter if we eventually drone strike them, they failed and should look in to crowd sourcing the photo investigation in the future. The fact that highly irresponsible news agencies printed those photos is completely separate from reddit and 4Chan talking about it. Ideally there should be an FBI sanctioned system which allows this type of work. For those that point out the man the FBI accused in Atlanta, keep in mind, that was way, way, way more drawn out than a 24 hour period. Now, I'll also admit, I could be wrong, maybe they don't find them, maybe they don't post photos of who they think it is and these guys aren't cleared by the FBI, maybe it turns out that they are harassed etc. The internet is new, and I feel like we can figure out a way to do this the right way.
  • illuminate 13y ago
    "It might be why it sucks, but if vigilante justice, or in this case looking at photos and pointing out who had backpacks resulted in the capture of the true bomber more quickly, than the unfortunate consequences for the people temporarily named by a subreddit who's existence would be hard to locate without media attention is just not significant enough to outweigh the possibility of them figuring it out before they got on a flight etc. Sounds vaguely like how the US justifies torture.
    • wtvanhest 13y ago
      The logic you refer to is "the ends justify the means"... but I assure you that I considered both in my statement. There are definitely arguments to be made that say I am wrong.
    • alan_cx 13y ago
      Exactly. Worse still, it justifies terrorism too. A terrorist will argue that sacrifice is worth it to achieve their goals, which they see as justice in their terms. We have to be better than that, or there is literally no point bothering. We just do their work for them. People say Islamic terrorists hate American freedoms. So how come Americans give them up so easily citing the likes of Islamic terrorism? It just goes round and round, bomb, less freedom, bomb, less freedom, until you have less freedom than they have. Madness. Some one had to stop the spiral.
• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• runjake 13y ago
  What vigilante justice? There was a bunch of speculation on some websites the vast majority of the people don't read. The blame solely falls on unethical media organizations like the NY Post. They're the ones that decided to run with their "story".
• hristov 13y ago
  Also, this is why the New York Post sucks. I understand a bunch of internet teenagers with too much time on their hands spreading this story, but an actual newspaper with professional journalists? And on the front page too. The New York Post is only useful for insulation for the homeless. Luckily, this is also its primary use.
• locusm 13y ago
  Any idea what legal options this kid would have now? I mean is this not the worst kind of defamation? I would think the stigma will take years to shake.