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Some organic food myths: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019 Myth #1: Buying organic food benefits small farmers, and represents a blow to the big food corpor

by Luyt 14y ago

Some organic food myths: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4019 Myth #1: Buying organic food benefits small farmers, and represents a blow to the big food corporations. Myth #2: Organic foods are healthier to eat. Myth #3: Organic growing methods are better for the environment. Re 1) "...organic food is big, big business. The days when the organic produce section of the supermarket represented the product of a small local farmer are long gone. California alone produces over $600 million in organic produce, most of it coming from just five farms, who are also the same producers of most non-organic food in the state...." Re 2) "When you take the exact same strain of a plant and grow it in two different ways, its chemical and genetic makeup remain the same. One may be larger than the other if one growing method was more efficient, but its fundamental makeup and biochemical content is defined by its genes, not by the way it was grown. Consumer Reports found no consistent difference in appearance, flavor, or texture." Re 3) "Organic methods require about twice the acreage to produce the same crop, thus directly resulting in the destruction of undeveloped land."

nodata 14y ago
> Re 2) "When you take the exact same strain of a plant and grow it in two different ways, its chemical and genetic makeup remain the same. whoosh Wow, they skeptoid completely missed the point there. Ever tasted two "identical" apples? One organic, and one not? They don't taste anything like the same. > Re 3) "Organic methods require about twice the acreage to produce the same crop, thus directly resulting in the destruction of undeveloped land." Erm, yeah. Pesticides are way better than non-pesticide alternatives. Riiiight...
- eridius 14y ago
  > Ever tasted two "identical" apples? One organic, and one not? They don't taste anything like the same. Yeah, according to a Bullshi*t! (e.g. the Penn & Teller show) science experiment, the conventionally-grown fruit was often declared better-tasting by tasters who didn't know which was which. Obviously this is wildly unscientific, but the point is still valid.
  - dagw 14y ago
    As much as I love both Penn & Teller and Bullshit I don't think any of the so called 'experiments' they do deserve the prefix 'science' or have any validity. Their goal is to provide entertaining polemics, not to do any sort of hypothesis testing or to put forward anything that might challenge their preconceived notion.
    - Scaevolus 14y ago
      Particularly bad was their episode where they claimed that it's impossible to lose weight.
      - eridius 14y ago
        What episode was that? I watched every single episode they aired, and I don't remember any of them claiming that it was impossible to lose weight.
        Scaevolus 14y ago
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCYvc9F838E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCYvc9F838E
        eridius 14y ago
        I think you're grossly misrepresenting what they said. They didn't say you can't lose weight. They said that genetics dictates your general body shape, and that you're never going to end up looking like Adonis no matter how much you work out. You can certainly lose weight, get yourself healthier, and look better. But, as they said at the end of the video, you're probably not going to end up looking quite as good as you'd hoped, and it won't happen as fast as you hoped.
    - eridius 14y ago
      Of course. I called it a "Bullsh*t! science experiment" because that's what they called it. The word "bullshit" was part of the name, which hopefully gives a clue that it's not actually scientific.
- dagw 14y ago
  Ever tasted two "identical" apples? One organic, and one not? They don't taste anything like the same. That has more to do with the exact sub-strain used, when they where picked and how they where grown rather than simply organic vs non-organic. If organic tastes better it because the organic farmers is catering to a market that is willing to pay a higher price for a better product and thus willing to use more costly methods for growing his apples. It certainly possible to grow shit organic apples and amazing non-organic apples, the fact the few people do have more to do with surrounding market forces.
  - jrabone 14y ago
    Also how they're ripened (I believe you can change the colour of the tomato skin without allowing it to ripen), and that our sense of taste is strongly linked to our sense of smell - once you've coated a lemon in wax, it stops smelling like a lemon.
- icebraining 14y ago
  Have you ever tasted two identical apples? Both organic? They often don't taste anything like the same.
diroussel 14y ago
> fundamental makeup and biochemical content is defined by its genes, not by the way it was grown. So if I grow one apple tree in rich soil in the sun, and another in poor soil in the shade, then the "biochemical content" of the apples is not effected? It's purely a function of the genes?
seren 14y ago
I can understand #1 and #3. (Even is somehow that is strange that organics are not sustainable, but given the population we have to feed this is understandable) But #2 does not make sense. Sure the chemical composition of the final plant or meat is the same. But the reason why people are consuming organic food is that they only want the final product, and not the additional ration of pesticide residues and antibiotics as well.
- olivier1664 14y ago
  I believe the "why people are consuming organic foood" is farious and a little bit of these 3 arguments (plus social status and good qualities)
BSousa 14y ago
1) depends where you buy your organic food. I usually try to buy directly from the producers, or when not possible, a small market here that works with a wider range of organic producers (the farmers themselves deliver the loads, had a few nice chats with a few of them) 2) nutrient wise I can't say, but you do get a lot more pesticides and other crap in your food. Heck, try an organically grown apple and a 'normal' apple. Most of the normal apples will taste like wax. It is due to the chemical they use to protect the apple from worms that creates a film like cover that takes like crap. (and no idea how healthy it is) 3) No idea here, and I'm sure you are right about the acreage, but with crop rotation which most organic farmers use, the nutritional profile of that land doesn't get destroyed (opposed to traditional farming that depletes the farm of any nutrient)
ScottWhigham 14y ago
Downvoted for off topic agenda-driven/like comments. No one asked, "What are the organic food myths?" yet you felt compelled to post them anyway. Why? That's the agenda part of it - you have some internal reason for posting an off-topic comment that you didn't share.

by Luyt 14y ago

nodata 14y ago

> Re 2) "When you take the exact same strain of a plant and grow it in two different ways, its chemical and genetic makeup remain the same. whoosh Wow, they skeptoid completely missed the point there. Ever tasted two "identical" apples? One organic, and one not? They don't taste anything like the same. > Re 3) "Organic methods require about twice the acreage to produce the same crop, thus directly resulting in the destruction of undeveloped land." Erm, yeah. Pesticides are way better than non-pesticide alternatives. Riiiight...

eridius 14y ago
> Ever tasted two "identical" apples? One organic, and one not? They don't taste anything like the same. Yeah, according to a Bullshi*t! (e.g. the Penn & Teller show) science experiment, the conventionally-grown fruit was often declared better-tasting by tasters who didn't know which was which. Obviously this is wildly unscientific, but the point is still valid.
- dagw 14y ago
  As much as I love both Penn & Teller and Bullshit I don't think any of the so called 'experiments' they do deserve the prefix 'science' or have any validity. Their goal is to provide entertaining polemics, not to do any sort of hypothesis testing or to put forward anything that might challenge their preconceived notion.
  - Scaevolus 14y ago
    Particularly bad was their episode where they claimed that it's impossible to lose weight.
    - eridius 14y ago
      What episode was that? I watched every single episode they aired, and I don't remember any of them claiming that it was impossible to lose weight.
      - Scaevolus 14y ago
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCYvc9F838E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCYvc9F838E
        eridius 14y ago
        I think you're grossly misrepresenting what they said. They didn't say you can't lose weight. They said that genetics dictates your general body shape, and that you're never going to end up looking like Adonis no matter how much you work out. You can certainly lose weight, get yourself healthier, and look better. But, as they said at the end of the video, you're probably not going to end up looking quite as good as you'd hoped, and it won't happen as fast as you hoped.
  - eridius 14y ago
    Of course. I called it a "Bullsh*t! science experiment" because that's what they called it. The word "bullshit" was part of the name, which hopefully gives a clue that it's not actually scientific.
dagw 14y ago
Ever tasted two "identical" apples? One organic, and one not? They don't taste anything like the same. That has more to do with the exact sub-strain used, when they where picked and how they where grown rather than simply organic vs non-organic. If organic tastes better it because the organic farmers is catering to a market that is willing to pay a higher price for a better product and thus willing to use more costly methods for growing his apples. It certainly possible to grow shit organic apples and amazing non-organic apples, the fact the few people do have more to do with surrounding market forces.
- jrabone 14y ago
  Also how they're ripened (I believe you can change the colour of the tomato skin without allowing it to ripen), and that our sense of taste is strongly linked to our sense of smell - once you've coated a lemon in wax, it stops smelling like a lemon.
icebraining 14y ago
Have you ever tasted two identical apples? Both organic? They often don't taste anything like the same.

diroussel 14y ago

> fundamental makeup and biochemical content is defined by its genes, not by the way it was grown. So if I grow one apple tree in rich soil in the sun, and another in poor soil in the shade, then the "biochemical content" of the apples is not effected? It's purely a function of the genes?

seren 14y ago

I can understand #1 and #3. (Even is somehow that is strange that organics are not sustainable, but given the population we have to feed this is understandable) But #2 does not make sense. Sure the chemical composition of the final plant or meat is the same. But the reason why people are consuming organic food is that they only want the final product, and not the additional ration of pesticide residues and antibiotics as well.

olivier1664 14y ago
I believe the "why people are consuming organic foood" is farious and a little bit of these 3 arguments (plus social status and good qualities)

BSousa 14y ago

1) depends where you buy your organic food. I usually try to buy directly from the producers, or when not possible, a small market here that works with a wider range of organic producers (the farmers themselves deliver the loads, had a few nice chats with a few of them) 2) nutrient wise I can't say, but you do get a lot more pesticides and other crap in your food. Heck, try an organically grown apple and a 'normal' apple. Most of the normal apples will taste like wax. It is due to the chemical they use to protect the apple from worms that creates a film like cover that takes like crap. (and no idea how healthy it is) 3) No idea here, and I'm sure you are right about the acreage, but with crop rotation which most organic farmers use, the nutritional profile of that land doesn't get destroyed (opposed to traditional farming that depletes the farm of any nutrient)

ScottWhigham 14y ago

Downvoted for off topic agenda-driven/like comments. No one asked, "What are the organic food myths?" yet you felt compelled to post them anyway. Why? That's the agenda part of it - you have some internal reason for posting an off-topic comment that you didn't share.