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Is it me or are these petitions almost worse than doing nothing? These petitions show over & over again that they don't actually do anything to change policies.

Is it me or are these petitions almost worse than doing nothing? These petitions show over & over again that they don't actually do anything to change policies. It's almost like a release valve so people feel like they're being democratic without even really doing anything at all.

stormbrew 14y ago
In what way is any of that worse than doing nothing at all?
- whatshisface 14y ago
  It's easier to "sign" an online petition than to send a letter to one of your representatives, if people click once and then feel like they have had their say then much of the people's voice will be lost.
  - traeblain 14y ago
    Thank you. I've had an issue with the White House petitions since it's inception, and could put my finger on exactly why. And this absolutely articulates my thoughts.
  - tunesmith 14y ago
    I wonder if experiments have been done on this. Limit it to the actions of doing nothing, of clicking/signing a petition, and writing a representative. So, the question is if the likelihood of someone writing a representative is increased or decreased by the presence of an opportunity to click/sign a petition. Sounds like the hypothesis here is that the satisfaction of signing a petition would reduce the odds of writing a representative, more than increase it. I could see it the other way though - maybe the civic engagement of caring enough to sign a petition would make it more likely that they'd contact a representative than they would have otherwise. I wonder how the experiment could be structured? Maybe an educational/awareness web page, with a second step of an opportunity to contact a representative, while inserting the "sign-a-petition?" step in between? There are some ecommerce people that believe that by giving buyers more-and-smaller steps to click through, it increases conversion, so who knows.
  - lessnonymous 14y ago
    If I had a botnet, I'd point the whole lot of them at this comment to get it upvoted more.
  - stormbrew 14y ago
    I don't think it's obvious that someone who clicks on a petition either would have otherwise sent a letter to a representative or would be discouraged from doing so in the future after the fact. Maybe engaging in small scale participatory democracy actually encourages people to engage in larger scales, for all you know. Frankly, I hear so much of this "oh that'll never do anything and it just makes people disillusioned" nonsense about ALL levels of engagement ("protesters are hurting their own cause!" "it's just a staffer who reads your letter!" "no one cares what you say!") that I'm extremely skeptical of all such claims. Maybe rather than tell people who engage that they're failing it would be more useful to encourage them to succeed more.
    - joelrunyon 14y ago
      > Frankly, I hear so much of this "oh that'll never do anything and it just makes people disillusioned" nonsense about ALL levels of engagement ("protesters are hurting their own cause!" "it's just a staffer who reads your letter!" "no one cares what you say!") that I'm extremely skeptical of all such claims. But there are examples of those types of protests working. Have the petitions ever done anything (other than the death star one which gave the gov't some PR points)? The activism that happened last year with SOPA actually took effort & targeted the people who were able to act on it. Right now, the petition site seems to be handled exclusively by the White House's PR team.
- joelrunyon 14y ago
  As I said in the second part of my post: > It's almost like a release valve so people feel like they're being democratic without even really doing anything at all.

stormbrew 14y ago

In what way is any of that worse than doing nothing at all?

whatshisface 14y ago
It's easier to "sign" an online petition than to send a letter to one of your representatives, if people click once and then feel like they have had their say then much of the people's voice will be lost.
- traeblain 14y ago
  Thank you. I've had an issue with the White House petitions since it's inception, and could put my finger on exactly why. And this absolutely articulates my thoughts.
- tunesmith 14y ago
  I wonder if experiments have been done on this. Limit it to the actions of doing nothing, of clicking/signing a petition, and writing a representative. So, the question is if the likelihood of someone writing a representative is increased or decreased by the presence of an opportunity to click/sign a petition. Sounds like the hypothesis here is that the satisfaction of signing a petition would reduce the odds of writing a representative, more than increase it. I could see it the other way though - maybe the civic engagement of caring enough to sign a petition would make it more likely that they'd contact a representative than they would have otherwise. I wonder how the experiment could be structured? Maybe an educational/awareness web page, with a second step of an opportunity to contact a representative, while inserting the "sign-a-petition?" step in between? There are some ecommerce people that believe that by giving buyers more-and-smaller steps to click through, it increases conversion, so who knows.
- lessnonymous 14y ago
  If I had a botnet, I'd point the whole lot of them at this comment to get it upvoted more.
- stormbrew 14y ago
  I don't think it's obvious that someone who clicks on a petition either would have otherwise sent a letter to a representative or would be discouraged from doing so in the future after the fact. Maybe engaging in small scale participatory democracy actually encourages people to engage in larger scales, for all you know. Frankly, I hear so much of this "oh that'll never do anything and it just makes people disillusioned" nonsense about ALL levels of engagement ("protesters are hurting their own cause!" "it's just a staffer who reads your letter!" "no one cares what you say!") that I'm extremely skeptical of all such claims. Maybe rather than tell people who engage that they're failing it would be more useful to encourage them to succeed more.
  - joelrunyon 14y ago
    > Frankly, I hear so much of this "oh that'll never do anything and it just makes people disillusioned" nonsense about ALL levels of engagement ("protesters are hurting their own cause!" "it's just a staffer who reads your letter!" "no one cares what you say!") that I'm extremely skeptical of all such claims. But there are examples of those types of protests working. Have the petitions ever done anything (other than the death star one which gave the gov't some PR points)? The activism that happened last year with SOPA actually took effort & targeted the people who were able to act on it. Right now, the petition site seems to be handled exclusively by the White House's PR team.
joelrunyon 14y ago
As I said in the second part of my post: > It's almost like a release valve so people feel like they're being democratic without even really doing anything at all.