10 ms·

For people having trouble interpreting the graph, the legend from the actual paper says: "The energy and power density of our microbattery cells (A–H) at low t

For people having trouble interpreting the graph, the legend from the actual paper says: "The energy and power density of our microbattery cells (A–H) at low to high C rates, along with previous microbattery cells having 3D electrodes (MB1 through MB3). The plot also includes the performance range of conventional power technologies and commercial batteries from A123 (high power) and Sony (high energy)." Where C rates stand for charge rates, with 1C being able to charge the full capacity of the battery in 1 hour. The key take away for the new design's performance isn't the one quoted in the title (of the submission or the article), but rather "Compared with conventional supercapacitors, our microbattery delivers 10 × the power of a supercapacitor at comparable energy density, delivers 10 × the energy of a supercapacitor at comparable power density or has 10 × smaller volume than a supercapacitor at comparable performance". Just by glancing at the graph, you can see that the design is orders of magnitudes less energy dense than today's lithium-ion batteries. This advancement will make high-power applications more feasible, but will probably not do very much to increase your phone/laptop's battery life.

gabipurcaru 14y ago
Electric cars?
- Retric 14y ago
  Weight, Energy density. and cost are what's most important for general Electric car energy storage. So if this cost's more or weights significantly more it's next to useless for that. However, they might have some use as part of a more efficient regenerative breaking system. PS: As to faster charging, issues are going to Limit that. A 99% efficient battery charging 100x as fast as Li-Ion is going to dump a lot of heat vary quickly. Duping heat is not really an issue for small battery's but scale this up into the 50+kwh range for an electric car or even just a cellphone battery and you will have significant issues.
  - userulluipeste 14y ago
    About charging speed, you're invoking another problem, that of (over)heating. That however, deserves a separate context of its own to be addressed in. I think it's safe to assume that a lot of efficiency can be safely salvaged from that 100x improvement.
- icegreentea 14y ago
  Well... it's tricky. If you assume that current electric cars have the performance of that A123 battery from the graph, and then pick something in the middle of the spread of the colourful dots, you get a roughly 1 order decrease in energy density, and a 1 order increase in power density. So, taking the Model S as an example, you have a 300 mile range, and a charge time of like 45 minutes at a super charger. So... now you end up with like a 30-60 mile range range, and can charge up fully in like 3-5 minutes. So we've brought charge times into the realm of filly up gas, but you're doing it waaay more often. If this is a useful advancement or not depends completely on what type of infrastructure we want to envision. I would certainly love a world where this was possible/feasible, but it's certainly not a grand slam.
  - colanderman 14y ago
    Don't you mean a charge in 24-30 seconds? Otherwise your example is just that of a 10x smaller A123 battery.
    - meepmorp 14y ago
      45 min is 2700 seconds, so 10x faster charging is 270 seconds or 4 1/2 minutes.
      - flakmonkey 14y ago
        The rate that the battery charges is independent from the capacity of the battery. Assuming the new tech is 10x less energy dense and has a 10x faster charge rate, if you compare one of these new batteries with capacity equal to that of the Model S battery, the new battery will charge 10x faster but occupy 10x the volume, since it is less energy dense. A new battery of this kind that occupied the same volume as a Model S would contain 10x less energy than the Model S battery, but it would charge to full capacity 100x faster than the Model S.
      - cdash 14y ago
        There should be two multipliers though right? If it charges 10x faster and you are charging to a 10x less total energy it should charge 100x faster right?
- VLM 14y ago
  One parameter not discussed so far is self discharge rates. Maybe a problem maybe not, either way that parameter is going to be important. For simple regenerative braking its not so big of a deal but if you're hoping to use it as a primary energy source its a big deal.

gabipurcaru 14y ago

Electric cars?

Retric 14y ago
Weight, Energy density. and cost are what's most important for general Electric car energy storage. So if this cost's more or weights significantly more it's next to useless for that. However, they might have some use as part of a more efficient regenerative breaking system. PS: As to faster charging, issues are going to Limit that. A 99% efficient battery charging 100x as fast as Li-Ion is going to dump a lot of heat vary quickly. Duping heat is not really an issue for small battery's but scale this up into the 50+kwh range for an electric car or even just a cellphone battery and you will have significant issues.
- userulluipeste 14y ago
  About charging speed, you're invoking another problem, that of (over)heating. That however, deserves a separate context of its own to be addressed in. I think it's safe to assume that a lot of efficiency can be safely salvaged from that 100x improvement.
icegreentea 14y ago
Well... it's tricky. If you assume that current electric cars have the performance of that A123 battery from the graph, and then pick something in the middle of the spread of the colourful dots, you get a roughly 1 order decrease in energy density, and a 1 order increase in power density. So, taking the Model S as an example, you have a 300 mile range, and a charge time of like 45 minutes at a super charger. So... now you end up with like a 30-60 mile range range, and can charge up fully in like 3-5 minutes. So we've brought charge times into the realm of filly up gas, but you're doing it waaay more often. If this is a useful advancement or not depends completely on what type of infrastructure we want to envision. I would certainly love a world where this was possible/feasible, but it's certainly not a grand slam.
- colanderman 14y ago
  Don't you mean a charge in 24-30 seconds? Otherwise your example is just that of a 10x smaller A123 battery.
  - meepmorp 14y ago
    45 min is 2700 seconds, so 10x faster charging is 270 seconds or 4 1/2 minutes.
    - flakmonkey 14y ago
      The rate that the battery charges is independent from the capacity of the battery. Assuming the new tech is 10x less energy dense and has a 10x faster charge rate, if you compare one of these new batteries with capacity equal to that of the Model S battery, the new battery will charge 10x faster but occupy 10x the volume, since it is less energy dense. A new battery of this kind that occupied the same volume as a Model S would contain 10x less energy than the Model S battery, but it would charge to full capacity 100x faster than the Model S.
    - cdash 14y ago
      There should be two multipliers though right? If it charges 10x faster and you are charging to a 10x less total energy it should charge 100x faster right?
VLM 14y ago
One parameter not discussed so far is self discharge rates. Maybe a problem maybe not, either way that parameter is going to be important. For simple regenerative braking its not so big of a deal but if you're hoping to use it as a primary energy source its a big deal.