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> So far, the researchers have used this tech to create a button-sized microbattery, and you can see in the graph below how well their battery compares to a con

> So far, the researchers have used this tech to create a button-sized microbattery, and you can see in the graph below how well their battery compares to a conventional Sony CR1620 button cell. That sounds like a battery to me. The new design has actually been built and tested. The quote you pulled out refers to scaling it up to things like lasers and F1 cars. A button-sized battery sounds fine for a lot of electronics today. Just not an F1 car.

criley 14y ago
It sounds like they've developed a prototype, which is further than a design but also not a production model.
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  Agreed. But it is a functional battery more than it is "only a design"
  - lutusp 14y ago
    Fair enough. Is a prototype flying car a design or a product? Can I get one -- not the design, the product?
    - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
      Neither... it is a prototype. Somewhere between just a design and a product is a wide variety of other states. A single, physical item that actually functions as designed may not be a product yet (or ever) but it is leaps and bounds beyond "just a design." If "prototype" and "design" mean the same thing then a lot of people get that wrong everyday.
Someone 14y ago
Building one in the lab likely does not give you the ability to build a million of them at a decent price in a factory. Yield probably is low, and the current process will likely be way too labour intensive.
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  True. But lutusp was shitting all over the submitter for dropping the almighty "design" word from the title and then claimed this is not an article about a battery but only about a design for one. That claim is wrong. It is more than a design... it is an actual battery. Maybe there is only one unit that exists. But that is still one more than a design. And if the tech proves sound but too labor intensive, your next thing to tackle is to make it easier to build. Isn't that how bleeding-edge innovation works?
  - alecdibble 14y ago
    Bleeding edge innovation usually occurs when researchers and engineers make progress using known or easily-modifiable processes. Most "breakthroughs" are dead-ends because process or scaling weren't considered in the initial research. True technological innovation needs not just engineering feasibility but also economic feasibility. I'm not trying to say that the research that "dead ends" is pointless. Progress is progress. All I am trying to say is that it doesn't mean economic viability is right around the corner. Often, researchers are well aware of scaling or manufacturing hurdles when they embark on the experiments. For the sake of academic careers and exposure, the research will get hyped regardless of the viability of implementing the research.
  - lutusp 14y ago
    > But lutusp was shitting all over the submitter for dropping the almighty "design" word from the title and then claimed this is not an article about a battery but only about a design for one. Yes, but guess what? That's true -- it's not a marketable product, it's a laboratory curiosity. That difference mustn't be dismissed. There are any number of research developments that never become products for reasons other than their theoretical properties. > Isn't that how bleeding-edge innovation works? Not exactly. If if were, a solar panel that converted a higher percentage of the sun's energy into electricity would beat a panel that produced more power per dollar. But in reality, it's the other way around.
lutusp 14y ago
> That sounds like a battery to me. Not when the public thinks a battery is something you can buy for a reasonable price. This reminds me of the solar panel business, where the driving market issue is not cell efficiency, it's cell cost per watt. A panel that produces more watts per dollar will usually beat a panel that's more efficient at capturing the sun's energy.

criley 14y ago

It sounds like they've developed a prototype, which is further than a design but also not a production model.

jack-r-abbit 14y ago
Agreed. But it is a functional battery more than it is "only a design"
- lutusp 14y ago
  Fair enough. Is a prototype flying car a design or a product? Can I get one -- not the design, the product?
  - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
    Neither... it is a prototype. Somewhere between just a design and a product is a wide variety of other states. A single, physical item that actually functions as designed may not be a product yet (or ever) but it is leaps and bounds beyond "just a design." If "prototype" and "design" mean the same thing then a lot of people get that wrong everyday.

Someone 14y ago

Building one in the lab likely does not give you the ability to build a million of them at a decent price in a factory. Yield probably is low, and the current process will likely be way too labour intensive.

jack-r-abbit 14y ago
True. But lutusp was shitting all over the submitter for dropping the almighty "design" word from the title and then claimed this is not an article about a battery but only about a design for one. That claim is wrong. It is more than a design... it is an actual battery. Maybe there is only one unit that exists. But that is still one more than a design. And if the tech proves sound but too labor intensive, your next thing to tackle is to make it easier to build. Isn't that how bleeding-edge innovation works?
- alecdibble 14y ago
  Bleeding edge innovation usually occurs when researchers and engineers make progress using known or easily-modifiable processes. Most "breakthroughs" are dead-ends because process or scaling weren't considered in the initial research. True technological innovation needs not just engineering feasibility but also economic feasibility. I'm not trying to say that the research that "dead ends" is pointless. Progress is progress. All I am trying to say is that it doesn't mean economic viability is right around the corner. Often, researchers are well aware of scaling or manufacturing hurdles when they embark on the experiments. For the sake of academic careers and exposure, the research will get hyped regardless of the viability of implementing the research.
- lutusp 14y ago
  > But lutusp was shitting all over the submitter for dropping the almighty "design" word from the title and then claimed this is not an article about a battery but only about a design for one. Yes, but guess what? That's true -- it's not a marketable product, it's a laboratory curiosity. That difference mustn't be dismissed. There are any number of research developments that never become products for reasons other than their theoretical properties. > Isn't that how bleeding-edge innovation works? Not exactly. If if were, a solar panel that converted a higher percentage of the sun's energy into electricity would beat a panel that produced more power per dollar. But in reality, it's the other way around.

lutusp 14y ago

> That sounds like a battery to me. Not when the public thinks a battery is something you can buy for a reasonable price. This reminds me of the solar panel business, where the driving market issue is not cell efficiency, it's cell cost per watt. A panel that produces more watts per dollar will usually beat a panel that's more efficient at capturing the sun's energy.