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> he will spend the money promoting causes I hate > you're never going to get people who don't disagree on some divisive issue I'm not sure you appreciate how

> he will spend the money promoting causes I hate > you're never going to get people who don't disagree on some divisive issue I'm not sure you appreciate how deeply these issues affect the people they're about. It's not just talking points for everybody.

jiggy2011 14y ago
Of course the issues affect people , that's why they have strong views. However one of the great triumphs of capitalism appears to be getting very different people to work together towards a common goal.
newnewnew 14y ago
Roughly 25% of my generation has been killed by abortion, yet I still manage to work with many ardent pro-choice people. You have to develop thick skin. I blame the meme-space that we live in for ideas that I find abhorrent, not the individuals that believe them.
- subsection1h 14y ago
  Roughly 25% of my generation has been killed by abortion As I understand it, the majority of pregnancies result in abortions: http://www.emcom.ca/health/abortion.shtml http://www.emcom.ca/health/abortion.shtml
yew 14y ago
Everyone believes that it 'isn't just a talking point'. Everyone believes that 'some things are clearly subjective, but come on, really, this clearly isn't even worth calling an idea'. The pity is, no one can agree on what 'it' is. What everyone also has is a different idea about what 'obviously has to stop NOW'. "You're free to believe whatever you want, as long as in effect it's indistinguishable from believing the same thing as me" is going to get you nowhere, fast.
- ben0x539 14y ago
  It's more like "You're free to believe whatever you want, but that freedom doesn't automatically make you not a bigot". If someone spends their entire life having to justify their existence to the de-facto ruling class, patience for this "all viewpoints are equally valid" stance can run out fast.
  - yew 14y ago
    It's more like "You're free to believe whatever you want, but that freedom doesn't automatically make you not a bigot". So many words for 'we won't accept it'! I'm not saying that all beliefs are equally valid. I don't even have a problem with calling people bigots, as long as you're careful to mind the gap between 'speaking' and 'acting'. I am saying that you are not the only one who really, truly, actually believes that they're running out of patience and that 'doing something' is justified. It doesn't matter how strongly you believe that you're in the right. If you decide that, just this once, it isn't really imposing your beliefs on others then you will have to live the rest of your life in a world where everyone else decides that way too. (Not to say that you won't have to live that way even if you don't do it. Other people's beliefs will impact you, more or less by definition. On the other hand, it doesn't make for a very convincing justification.)
    - ben0x539 14y ago
      No, I'm not going to accept oppression, and that doesn't make me the bigot who imposes their beliefs on others. Jesus.
      - yew 14y ago
        As you wish. Though I have to wonder why we're having this conversation if you don't actually want to talk with me.
    - eropple 14y ago
      You are making the assumption, to my mind entirely unfounded, that there is any "forcing" going on by the correct (why, yes, I went there) side in any of the issues expressed in this thread. As an example, same-sex marriage doesn't affect them unless they choose to marry someone of the same sex. Nobody's "imposing" anything on anyone. It is the absence of imposition to which you seem bound and determined to protest. Why?

jiggy2011 14y ago

Of course the issues affect people , that's why they have strong views. However one of the great triumphs of capitalism appears to be getting very different people to work together towards a common goal.

newnewnew 14y ago

Roughly 25% of my generation has been killed by abortion, yet I still manage to work with many ardent pro-choice people. You have to develop thick skin. I blame the meme-space that we live in for ideas that I find abhorrent, not the individuals that believe them.

subsection1h 14y ago
Roughly 25% of my generation has been killed by abortion As I understand it, the majority of pregnancies result in abortions: http://www.emcom.ca/health/abortion.shtml http://www.emcom.ca/health/abortion.shtml

yew 14y ago

Everyone believes that it 'isn't just a talking point'. Everyone believes that 'some things are clearly subjective, but come on, really, this clearly isn't even worth calling an idea'. The pity is, no one can agree on what 'it' is. What everyone also has is a different idea about what 'obviously has to stop NOW'. "You're free to believe whatever you want, as long as in effect it's indistinguishable from believing the same thing as me" is going to get you nowhere, fast.

ben0x539 14y ago
It's more like "You're free to believe whatever you want, but that freedom doesn't automatically make you not a bigot". If someone spends their entire life having to justify their existence to the de-facto ruling class, patience for this "all viewpoints are equally valid" stance can run out fast.
- yew 14y ago
  It's more like "You're free to believe whatever you want, but that freedom doesn't automatically make you not a bigot". So many words for 'we won't accept it'! I'm not saying that all beliefs are equally valid. I don't even have a problem with calling people bigots, as long as you're careful to mind the gap between 'speaking' and 'acting'. I am saying that you are not the only one who really, truly, actually believes that they're running out of patience and that 'doing something' is justified. It doesn't matter how strongly you believe that you're in the right. If you decide that, just this once, it isn't really imposing your beliefs on others then you will have to live the rest of your life in a world where everyone else decides that way too. (Not to say that you won't have to live that way even if you don't do it. Other people's beliefs will impact you, more or less by definition. On the other hand, it doesn't make for a very convincing justification.)
  - ben0x539 14y ago
    No, I'm not going to accept oppression, and that doesn't make me the bigot who imposes their beliefs on others. Jesus.
    - yew 14y ago
      As you wish. Though I have to wonder why we're having this conversation if you don't actually want to talk with me.
  - eropple 14y ago
    You are making the assumption, to my mind entirely unfounded, that there is any "forcing" going on by the correct (why, yes, I went there) side in any of the issues expressed in this thread. As an example, same-sex marriage doesn't affect them unless they choose to marry someone of the same sex. Nobody's "imposing" anything on anyone. It is the absence of imposition to which you seem bound and determined to protest. Why?