6 ms·

I'd love to see how Go 1.1 compares against modern JITted scripting languages, because I think those will be a major part of Go's current and future competition

by vardump 14y ago

I'd love to see how Go 1.1 compares against modern JITted scripting languages, because I think those will be a major part of Go's current and future competition. Hopefully the benchmarks game will one day include those JIT variants. V8 is there, but sadly for example PyPy, HHVM (Facebook's PHP TJIT) and LuaJIT are not.

igouy 14y ago
"If you're interested in something not shown then please take the program source code and the measurement scripts and publish your own measurements." http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.php#languagex http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.php#languagex
- dilap 14y ago
  Yeah, but the request isn't to include some random language, it's to use the fast implementations of any given language. Why wouldn't you, in a site that benchmarks speed? I think not to do so is unhelpful, actually -- if you don't realize they're are JITs for Python and Lua that aren't being included in the benchmarks, you will come away with a completely wrong impression about the possible performance of those languages. edit: what spion said in their comment
  - igouy 14y ago
    >>Why would you not do that...<< "Because I want to do fewer chores not more!" >>a completely wrong impression<< "These are not the only compilers and interpreters. These are not the only programs that could be written. These are not the only tasks that could be solved. These are just 10 tiny examples."
    - dilap 14y ago
      Let's say I make a website called the Prettiest Person Game, and I throw up some professional crazy-awesome shots of myself and my buddies, and I also put up all igouy's old driver's license photos, and then create a whole bunch of different ways we can compare these photos and see who's prettier. And let's say this site becomes really popular. And people start posting articles like, "wow, dilap is like 10x prettier than igouy in ever single way!" And then igouy's friends go, "whoaaaa, hold on a minute, those are terrible photo's of ioguy! he can really look much better than that!" And then I'm like, "Hey, I ain't got time for this -- I told you already these are not the only photos in the world. Go take your own photos if you want a different comparison!" That's what you're saying.
      - igouy 14y ago
        What I'm saying is -- tl;dr Measurement is highly specific -- the time taken for this benchmark task, by this program, with this programming language implementation, with these options, on this computer, with these workloads. http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/ http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/
      - igouy 14y ago
        In terms of your little make-believe story it's -- "send photos of igouy and you and your buddies, and we'll see which photos are prettier". But don't send photos of your cousins, and your buddies cousins, and...
  - rdtsc 14y ago
    Because there was a big spitting match a couple of years ago and it seems the maintainer picked its favorite languages and features and chose to represent (what seems like on purpose) others in a bad light.
    - igouy 14y ago
      For a couple of years I've wanted to "cull the herd" but my curiosity (and interest in promoting experimental language implementations) stopped me doing so. The most that Alex Gaynor's nonsense did was prompt me once more to consider whether the time was ripe. Apr 2011 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/glvgk/lua_jit_pypy_tracemonkey_python_27_jruby_and/c1oknq1 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/glvgk/lua_jit_p...
  - gnuvince 14y ago
    I fondly remember The Great Language Shootout by Doug Bagley; I could understand the majority of the problems, there were a lot of languages represented. Good times.
    - igouy 14y ago
      Enjoy -- http://web.archive.org/web/20010124090400/http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/ http://web.archive.org/web/20010124090400/http://www.bagley....
spion 14y ago
I think we're in dire need of a new benchmarks game. The author: removed PyPy removed the clear overview table that showed all languages, keeping only the barely visible gray bar charts with vertical text (why not horizontal bar charts, they can be scrolled and read without head tilting) refuses to add LuaJIT and other languages responds to most change inquiries with "publish your own version" which probably means that he doesn't really care about the project anymore As a result, the spirit of the benchmarks game was lost a long time ago as its made less fun with each iteration.
- igouy 14y ago
  Not only that, but "the author" has for many years provided the source code for the scripts to make the measurements -- so anyone who actually wants to can easily start a new benchmarks game. Go do! http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.php#languagex http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.php#languagex
  - gnuvince 14y ago
    Why ask people to start their own benchmarks (presumably with Blackjack and hookers) instead of allowing people to contribute to the Benchmark Games?
    - igouy 14y ago
      Because they don't wish to contribute to the benchmarks game, they wish to see something different -- and that's fine with me.
  - spion 14y ago
    Its far from "easily". Its not like you could just fork the code and run the benchmarks game - you would not only have to setup the environment for all languages, but also understand the not-so-well documented idiosyncrasies and deficiencies of the implementation (hardcoded paths? seriously?) It doesn't seem like the code was originally written to be understood and modified by others and its not fully documented. As such your claim that its simple to fork it isn't really valid. (However I'm willing to admit the possibility that the configuration complexity is not easily avoidable) I agree that its far from easy to write a benchmarks game, setup a test environment and invest oh-so-many CPU cycles into running the tests periodically. But I wouldn't go around telling people that forking the original is easy either - that would be very misleading. Much will have to be done to improve the current engine to make it easier to fork. I'm seriously considering doing that (or alternatively making a new benchmarks game from scratch with the intent of making it easy to configure and fork)
rdtsc 14y ago
That was there. PyPy was there at least. LuaJIT too I think. All go yanked out. The benchmarks are bogus anyway unless what you plan on working on n-body or fasta search or a short other list of things they run.
fabriceleal 14y ago
I believe Go is compiled [1][2]. Isn't a comparison with something like Haskell [3] more fair? [1] http://golang.org/doc/faq#Implementation http://golang.org/doc/faq#Implementation [2] http://golang.org/cmd/go/#hdr-Compile_and_run_Go_program http://golang.org/cmd/go/#hdr-Compile_and_run_Go_program [3] http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=go&lang2=ghc&data=u64 http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?te...
- elliotlai 14y ago
  The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System is truly glorious

by vardump 14y ago

igouy 14y ago

"If you're interested in something not shown then please take the program source code and the measurement scripts and publish your own measurements." http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.php#languagex http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.php#languagex

dilap 14y ago
Yeah, but the request isn't to include some random language, it's to use the fast implementations of any given language. Why wouldn't you, in a site that benchmarks speed? I think not to do so is unhelpful, actually -- if you don't realize they're are JITs for Python and Lua that aren't being included in the benchmarks, you will come away with a completely wrong impression about the possible performance of those languages. edit: what spion said in their comment
- igouy 14y ago
  >>Why would you not do that...<< "Because I want to do fewer chores not more!" >>a completely wrong impression<< "These are not the only compilers and interpreters. These are not the only programs that could be written. These are not the only tasks that could be solved. These are just 10 tiny examples."
  - dilap 14y ago
    Let's say I make a website called the Prettiest Person Game, and I throw up some professional crazy-awesome shots of myself and my buddies, and I also put up all igouy's old driver's license photos, and then create a whole bunch of different ways we can compare these photos and see who's prettier. And let's say this site becomes really popular. And people start posting articles like, "wow, dilap is like 10x prettier than igouy in ever single way!" And then igouy's friends go, "whoaaaa, hold on a minute, those are terrible photo's of ioguy! he can really look much better than that!" And then I'm like, "Hey, I ain't got time for this -- I told you already these are not the only photos in the world. Go take your own photos if you want a different comparison!" That's what you're saying.
    - igouy 14y ago
      What I'm saying is -- tl;dr Measurement is highly specific -- the time taken for this benchmark task, by this program, with this programming language implementation, with these options, on this computer, with these workloads. http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/ http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/
    - igouy 14y ago
      In terms of your little make-believe story it's -- "send photos of igouy and you and your buddies, and we'll see which photos are prettier". But don't send photos of your cousins, and your buddies cousins, and...
- rdtsc 14y ago
  Because there was a big spitting match a couple of years ago and it seems the maintainer picked its favorite languages and features and chose to represent (what seems like on purpose) others in a bad light.
  - igouy 14y ago
    For a couple of years I've wanted to "cull the herd" but my curiosity (and interest in promoting experimental language implementations) stopped me doing so. The most that Alex Gaynor's nonsense did was prompt me once more to consider whether the time was ripe. Apr 2011 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/glvgk/lua_jit_pypy_tracemonkey_python_27_jruby_and/c1oknq1 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/glvgk/lua_jit_p...
- gnuvince 14y ago
  I fondly remember The Great Language Shootout by Doug Bagley; I could understand the majority of the problems, there were a lot of languages represented. Good times.
  - igouy 14y ago
    Enjoy -- http://web.archive.org/web/20010124090400/http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/ http://web.archive.org/web/20010124090400/http://www.bagley....

spion 14y ago

I think we're in dire need of a new benchmarks game. The author: removed PyPy removed the clear overview table that showed all languages, keeping only the barely visible gray bar charts with vertical text (why not horizontal bar charts, they can be scrolled and read without head tilting) refuses to add LuaJIT and other languages responds to most change inquiries with "publish your own version" which probably means that he doesn't really care about the project anymore As a result, the spirit of the benchmarks game was lost a long time ago as its made less fun with each iteration.

igouy 14y ago
Not only that, but "the author" has for many years provided the source code for the scripts to make the measurements -- so anyone who actually wants to can easily start a new benchmarks game. Go do! http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.php#languagex http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/play.php#languagex
- gnuvince 14y ago
  Why ask people to start their own benchmarks (presumably with Blackjack and hookers) instead of allowing people to contribute to the Benchmark Games?
  - igouy 14y ago
    Because they don't wish to contribute to the benchmarks game, they wish to see something different -- and that's fine with me.
- spion 14y ago
  Its far from "easily". Its not like you could just fork the code and run the benchmarks game - you would not only have to setup the environment for all languages, but also understand the not-so-well documented idiosyncrasies and deficiencies of the implementation (hardcoded paths? seriously?) It doesn't seem like the code was originally written to be understood and modified by others and its not fully documented. As such your claim that its simple to fork it isn't really valid. (However I'm willing to admit the possibility that the configuration complexity is not easily avoidable) I agree that its far from easy to write a benchmarks game, setup a test environment and invest oh-so-many CPU cycles into running the tests periodically. But I wouldn't go around telling people that forking the original is easy either - that would be very misleading. Much will have to be done to improve the current engine to make it easier to fork. I'm seriously considering doing that (or alternatively making a new benchmarks game from scratch with the intent of making it easy to configure and fork)

rdtsc 14y ago

That was there. PyPy was there at least. LuaJIT too I think. All go yanked out. The benchmarks are bogus anyway unless what you plan on working on n-body or fasta search or a short other list of things they run.

fabriceleal 14y ago

I believe Go is compiled [1][2]. Isn't a comparison with something like Haskell [3] more fair? [1] http://golang.org/doc/faq#Implementation http://golang.org/doc/faq#Implementation [2] http://golang.org/cmd/go/#hdr-Compile_and_run_Go_program http://golang.org/cmd/go/#hdr-Compile_and_run_Go_program [3] http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=go&lang2=ghc&data=u64 http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?te...

elliotlai 14y ago
The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System is truly glorious