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Seriously!? We can't stop being cynical, hyper-analytical computer nerds for 5 minutes? This isn't a study. There's no academic rigor to apply. It is a comment

Seriously!? We can't stop being cynical, hyper-analytical computer nerds for 5 minutes? This isn't a study. There's no academic rigor to apply. It is a commentary. It's a commentary that almost anyone who has either been a woman or been in a relationship with one can probably identify with or relate to. And yes, it is advertising. I have no doubt that no one walked away from that video not realizing it was advertising. So what? Advertising isn't allowed to say something positive, or dare I say, honest? What? Is it because they're a multinational and not a startup?

newnewnew 14y ago
Believing in pretty lies is neither worthwhile or praise-worthy.
- nateabele 14y ago
  Oh, I didn't realize this was a contest to see who could be the most sanctimonious. The video calls attention to the fact that women often focus on their flaws more than their positive features. If you find a lie in there somewhere, it's because you're judging it on the criteria of something it isn't trying to be, which says nothing about anyone or anything other than yourself.
  - abc3 14y ago
    What if this is reinforcing an idea that's widely believed, but doesn't actually exist? Here's a story about similarly sensationalized story that preyed on women's insecurities: http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/newsweek_discovers_doomed_spin.php http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/newsweek_discovers_doomed...
StavrosK 14y ago
> It's a commentary that almost anyone who has either been a woman or been in a relationship with one can probably identify with or relate to. I'd go further and say that everyone who has been a person can identify with. It's a human thing to notice things about yourself and think that people also notice it about you, because you know yourself better. I realized years ago that I didn't look at faces as a sum of parts, when a friend I knew for more than a year told me his nose was too wide. I looked at it and realized that, indeed, it was a bit wide. I was stunned that I saw him every day for more than a year and had never noticed his nose. It's not limited to the same sex. A girl I know had visibly crooked teeth, and at some point she had them fixed. When I saw her a few months later, I knew something was different, but I couldn't put my finger on it until someone mentioned it. Or maybe I'm just super-unperceptive, I don't know.
exit 14y ago
why post this to hn if not to have hyper-analytical computer nerds go over it? reddit gave it their predictable treatment yesterday.
- nateabele 14y ago
  Invoking Reddit is the Godwin's Law of Hacker News.
wdr1 14y ago
> What? Is it because they're a multinational and not a startup? Hang on. Dove is owned by Unilever, a company that also owns Axe body spray. What kind of ads does Axe run? Well, here's a few: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tWZB7OUSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tWZB7OUSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpTGaENQNNg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpTGaENQNNg In other words, they're selling the Barbie stereotype with their left hand & selling the anti-Barbie stereotype with their right. I think it's perfectly acceptable to call bullshit on a company that does both.
- nateabele 14y ago
  <sarcasm> Indeed, Unilever is one gigantic, completely homogenous organization, controlled by a single, duplicitous mastermind. </sarcasm> Back when I first became involved in pitching major brands, I learned very quickly that different groups within any sufficiently large organization can have vastly different values, principles, and priorities. And, most importantly for me at that time, different budgets. Also: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division
instakill 14y ago
It's a propaganda piece, not a commentary. It's brilliant because it is framed as if this is some kind of informal experiment, which is all that is needed to tap into the insecurities of women that have self-esteem issues. Even rational women will be affected by this (just as rational men would be should it be targeted at men). The brilliant thing about this advert is that it captures the audience with intrigue, and then breaks down the "facts" while at the same time telling women to really feel more beautiful than they think they are. What this does is it gets buy-in from the audience so that when the advert proposes soap and cleanliness to further the idea of beauty. In one study[0] about persuasion, it was found that when you try to advertise or sell a product, making statements or representing a world view that the audience can agree with first will make them more likely to agree with you when you then pitch them the product. As for the "honesty" of this, a real study is posted elsewhere in this thread that points to the contrary. [0] http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/10-0352%20The%20Role%20of%20Bolstering%20and%20Counterarguing%20Mindsets%20in%20Persuasion.pdf http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/10-0352%20The%20R...

newnewnew 14y ago

Believing in pretty lies is neither worthwhile or praise-worthy.

nateabele 14y ago
Oh, I didn't realize this was a contest to see who could be the most sanctimonious. The video calls attention to the fact that women often focus on their flaws more than their positive features. If you find a lie in there somewhere, it's because you're judging it on the criteria of something it isn't trying to be, which says nothing about anyone or anything other than yourself.
- abc3 14y ago
  What if this is reinforcing an idea that's widely believed, but doesn't actually exist? Here's a story about similarly sensationalized story that preyed on women's insecurities: http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/newsweek_discovers_doomed_spin.php http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/newsweek_discovers_doomed...

StavrosK 14y ago

> It's a commentary that almost anyone who has either been a woman or been in a relationship with one can probably identify with or relate to. I'd go further and say that everyone who has been a person can identify with. It's a human thing to notice things about yourself and think that people also notice it about you, because you know yourself better. I realized years ago that I didn't look at faces as a sum of parts, when a friend I knew for more than a year told me his nose was too wide. I looked at it and realized that, indeed, it was a bit wide. I was stunned that I saw him every day for more than a year and had never noticed his nose. It's not limited to the same sex. A girl I know had visibly crooked teeth, and at some point she had them fixed. When I saw her a few months later, I knew something was different, but I couldn't put my finger on it until someone mentioned it. Or maybe I'm just super-unperceptive, I don't know.

exit 14y ago

why post this to hn if not to have hyper-analytical computer nerds go over it? reddit gave it their predictable treatment yesterday.

nateabele 14y ago
Invoking Reddit is the Godwin's Law of Hacker News.

wdr1 14y ago

> What? Is it because they're a multinational and not a startup? Hang on. Dove is owned by Unilever, a company that also owns Axe body spray. What kind of ads does Axe run? Well, here's a few: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tWZB7OUSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9tWZB7OUSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpTGaENQNNg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpTGaENQNNg In other words, they're selling the Barbie stereotype with their left hand & selling the anti-Barbie stereotype with their right. I think it's perfectly acceptable to call bullshit on a company that does both.

nateabele 14y ago
<sarcasm> Indeed, Unilever is one gigantic, completely homogenous organization, controlled by a single, duplicitous mastermind. </sarcasm> Back when I first became involved in pitching major brands, I learned very quickly that different groups within any sufficiently large organization can have vastly different values, principles, and priorities. And, most importantly for me at that time, different budgets. Also: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division

instakill 14y ago

It's a propaganda piece, not a commentary. It's brilliant because it is framed as if this is some kind of informal experiment, which is all that is needed to tap into the insecurities of women that have self-esteem issues. Even rational women will be affected by this (just as rational men would be should it be targeted at men). The brilliant thing about this advert is that it captures the audience with intrigue, and then breaks down the "facts" while at the same time telling women to really feel more beautiful than they think they are. What this does is it gets buy-in from the audience so that when the advert proposes soap and cleanliness to further the idea of beauty. In one study[0] about persuasion, it was found that when you try to advertise or sell a product, making statements or representing a world view that the audience can agree with first will make them more likely to agree with you when you then pitch them the product. As for the "honesty" of this, a real study is posted elsewhere in this thread that points to the contrary. [0] http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/10-0352%20The%20Role%20of%20Bolstering%20and%20Counterarguing%20Mindsets%20in%20Persuasion.pdf http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/10-0352%20The%20R...