5 ms·

There is a high probability that this is false accusations, just "because we can" from the prosecutors ... I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't

by np422 13y ago

There is a high probability that this is false accusations, just "because we can" from the prosecutors ... I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't consider Sweden to fulfil all the requirements for rule of law and legal security. Even if he is acquitted from the crimes in a trial he will have spent a few months arrested and we don't have a bail system here in Sweden. Both European committee for the prevention of torture and Amnesty International frequently criticize Sweden for the conditions for arrestees ... Yepp, that's where Gotfried is being kept locked up...

alan_cx 13y ago
Out of interest, would you prefer to face Swedish justice or the US system?
- draugadrotten 13y ago
  Penalties in the Swedish justice system are humane. Even serious crimes only renders 5-10 years of prison time. Conditions in prisons are far better than the US. Prisoners have private rooms, gym and better food than elderly citizens. The US system have far too severe penalties. Sentences of 10-100 years are now common. Conditions in prisons are horrible with rampant drug abuse, violence and even murders. However, the Swedish prosecutors and courts are banana republic quality. Look at the Assange parody for an example. A Swedish prosecutor may invent almost anything as evidence, even a photoshopped screenshot - because ANYTHING can be submitted as evidence in a Swedish court. There is even a recent drug case where the Swedish police illegaly put GPS surveillance on a suspected drug trafficker. The court recognizes the police did this illegaly, but the GPS data is still allowed as evidence. This is called "fri bevisföring" in Swedish. The courts are made up by politically chosen representatives, not a jury, which further contributes to the banana republic sentencing. So - justice is more blind in Sweden, but she is slapping you on the wrist, instead of decapitating you.
  - swang 13y ago
    Do you mean less blind? Justice wearing a blindfold implies impartiality and fairness.
    - draugadrotten 13y ago
      I do. Thanks.
  - mongol 13y ago
    Yes, Sweden has "fri bevisföring". And why not? If evidence proves that someone is a criminal, it is not less true it was retrieved by controversial means. "Fri bevisföring" means that the court makes the decision whether the evidence is valid, based on circumstances in the case in question.
    - tyohn 13y ago
      Where would you draw the line? Why not simply monitor and track everyone everywhere all the time because hey they if they did something wrong then you'd be good to go with the proof... and we all know if you don't do anything criminal you don't have anything to hide...
    - makomk 13y ago
      Because it means that restrictions on search and seizure aren't worth the paper they're written on. If you're a police officer, why wouldn't you illegally search or track someone if you think it'll help you get a conviction? There's fuck-all chance you're going to get in trouble for it, your bosses and the prosecutors care just as much about nailing the guy as you do.
  - FireBeyond 13y ago
    "The courts are made up by politically chosen representatives, not a jury, which further contributes to the banana republic sentencing." As it is in the US, too. There aren't exactly elections for Supreme Court Justices.
- np422 13y ago
  My knowledge of how the US systems works in practise is limited, but as draugadrotten says in another comment - the penal system of Sweden is in general preferable to US. But when it comes to legal security it really is much harder choice but I think I would prefer to face the US justice system in all "normal" criminal cases. If the word terrorism was anywhere near the case I'm not so sure any more.
pathy 13y ago
Have you even read the indictment? A casual look seems to indicate that the investigation is very thorough. (See another post here for link) And if anyone is a flight risk who would never be granted bail it is Gottfried, He has already fled a sentence once - that is not to say that being in a 'häkte' is fun or humane, depending on circumstances. Finally: >I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't consider Sweden to fulfil all the requirements for rule of law and legal security. [Citation Neeeded]
- white_devil 13y ago
  >> I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't consider Sweden to fulfil all the requirements for rule of law and legal security. [Citation Neeeded] What kind of "citation" would you expect? The Swedish government to tell you they're dirty?
  - pathy 13y ago
    I would like citations on the fact that Sweden doesn't fulfill the requirement for rule of law and legal security A random google search revealed this site: http://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-law-index-map http://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-law-index-map A quick look suggests that the rule of law in Sweden is among the highest in the world. But if you got any sources on the contrary I would be happy to read them.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      >A quick look suggests that the rule of law in Sweden is among the highest in the world. But if you got any sources on the contrary I would be happy to read them. Those are just for general cases -- a median of government/police behavior. (Not to mention a lot of those are reported or based on data by government bodies themselves). Doesn't say squat about specific people targeted by some agency (as examples, unwanted agitators, etc). The "rule of law" is great in the US too in general, but you have people like J.E Hoover break all the rules in the book, or Senator McCarthy make his own rules, etc. Or you have the government maintain a whole prison, with torture, no due process, no trials, etc at all, outside the country (Guantanamo). The treatment of law in general cases is not at all the same as the treatment of law in "targeted" cases.
FireBeyond 13y ago
"Amnesty International frequently criticize Sweden for the conditions for arrestees ... Yepp, that's where Gotfried is being kept locked up..." Apropos of anything else, and without discounting the positives of the work they do, this is one of Amnesty's raison d'etre's - there is not a country on Earth that they do not criticize in this regard.

by np422 13y ago

alan_cx 13y ago

Out of interest, would you prefer to face Swedish justice or the US system?

draugadrotten 13y ago
Penalties in the Swedish justice system are humane. Even serious crimes only renders 5-10 years of prison time. Conditions in prisons are far better than the US. Prisoners have private rooms, gym and better food than elderly citizens. The US system have far too severe penalties. Sentences of 10-100 years are now common. Conditions in prisons are horrible with rampant drug abuse, violence and even murders. However, the Swedish prosecutors and courts are banana republic quality. Look at the Assange parody for an example. A Swedish prosecutor may invent almost anything as evidence, even a photoshopped screenshot - because ANYTHING can be submitted as evidence in a Swedish court. There is even a recent drug case where the Swedish police illegaly put GPS surveillance on a suspected drug trafficker. The court recognizes the police did this illegaly, but the GPS data is still allowed as evidence. This is called "fri bevisföring" in Swedish. The courts are made up by politically chosen representatives, not a jury, which further contributes to the banana republic sentencing. So - justice is more blind in Sweden, but she is slapping you on the wrist, instead of decapitating you.
- swang 13y ago
  Do you mean less blind? Justice wearing a blindfold implies impartiality and fairness.
  - draugadrotten 13y ago
    I do. Thanks.
- mongol 13y ago
  Yes, Sweden has "fri bevisföring". And why not? If evidence proves that someone is a criminal, it is not less true it was retrieved by controversial means. "Fri bevisföring" means that the court makes the decision whether the evidence is valid, based on circumstances in the case in question.
  - tyohn 13y ago
    Where would you draw the line? Why not simply monitor and track everyone everywhere all the time because hey they if they did something wrong then you'd be good to go with the proof... and we all know if you don't do anything criminal you don't have anything to hide...
  - makomk 13y ago
    Because it means that restrictions on search and seizure aren't worth the paper they're written on. If you're a police officer, why wouldn't you illegally search or track someone if you think it'll help you get a conviction? There's fuck-all chance you're going to get in trouble for it, your bosses and the prosecutors care just as much about nailing the guy as you do.
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  "The courts are made up by politically chosen representatives, not a jury, which further contributes to the banana republic sentencing." As it is in the US, too. There aren't exactly elections for Supreme Court Justices.
np422 13y ago
My knowledge of how the US systems works in practise is limited, but as draugadrotten says in another comment - the penal system of Sweden is in general preferable to US. But when it comes to legal security it really is much harder choice but I think I would prefer to face the US justice system in all "normal" criminal cases. If the word terrorism was anywhere near the case I'm not so sure any more.

pathy 13y ago

Have you even read the indictment? A casual look seems to indicate that the investigation is very thorough. (See another post here for link) And if anyone is a flight risk who would never be granted bail it is Gottfried, He has already fled a sentence once - that is not to say that being in a 'häkte' is fun or humane, depending on circumstances. Finally: >I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't consider Sweden to fulfil all the requirements for rule of law and legal security. [Citation Neeeded]

white_devil 13y ago
>> I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't consider Sweden to fulfil all the requirements for rule of law and legal security. [Citation Neeeded] What kind of "citation" would you expect? The Swedish government to tell you they're dirty?
- pathy 13y ago
  I would like citations on the fact that Sweden doesn't fulfill the requirement for rule of law and legal security A random google search revealed this site: http://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-law-index-map http://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-law-index-map A quick look suggests that the rule of law in Sweden is among the highest in the world. But if you got any sources on the contrary I would be happy to read them.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >A quick look suggests that the rule of law in Sweden is among the highest in the world. But if you got any sources on the contrary I would be happy to read them. Those are just for general cases -- a median of government/police behavior. (Not to mention a lot of those are reported or based on data by government bodies themselves). Doesn't say squat about specific people targeted by some agency (as examples, unwanted agitators, etc). The "rule of law" is great in the US too in general, but you have people like J.E Hoover break all the rules in the book, or Senator McCarthy make his own rules, etc. Or you have the government maintain a whole prison, with torture, no due process, no trials, etc at all, outside the country (Guantanamo). The treatment of law in general cases is not at all the same as the treatment of law in "targeted" cases.

FireBeyond 13y ago

"Amnesty International frequently criticize Sweden for the conditions for arrestees ... Yepp, that's where Gotfried is being kept locked up..." Apropos of anything else, and without discounting the positives of the work they do, this is one of Amnesty's raison d'etre's - there is not a country on Earth that they do not criticize in this regard.