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"If money is spent recklessly anyway, and is barely noticed when it's gone, why not put it into a pot where it at least stands a chance of benefiting more of so

"If money is spent recklessly anyway, and is barely noticed when it's gone, why not put it into a pot where it at least stands a chance of benefiting more of society?" Because it's my money that I earned that represents my hard work and the risks I've taken to generate that wealth. Part of my freedom is to spend the fruits of my effort as I wish. Who are you to decide that spending recklessly is an unnecessary freedom? I don't disagree with taxes, but this notion of increasing our taxing of the rich every time WE'VE spent OUR money recklessly seems somewhat like thieving to me now (I'm halfway through Atlas Shrugged). In a capitalist society you don't own my work and my effort, I do. If you would rather the community own my work, then please convert to a communist society so I can leave forthwith.

darkxanthos 18y ago
As an addendum to this I'd like to say I'd love to tax SOME of the rich more. The ones who aren't creating real value for the economy and who are really just leeching off of others' ideas and stifling growth (coughauto industrycough for ex).
nollidge 18y ago
"Because it's my money that I earned that represents my hard work and the risks I've taken to generate that wealth." Interesting. I, for one, am reticent to take credit for having been conceived by a pair of white, upper-middle-class, nurturing people. Nor do I wish to take credit for living in a society in which every one of my medical needs are accounted for without any effort on my part. Nor do I take credit for finding myself in an economy that values my particular skill set (for now, at least).
- darkxanthos 18y ago
  I lived most of my childhood buying clothes from thrift stores since that was all my waitress single mother could afford. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination but I am definitely upper middle class now and it's conceivable that I could be wealthy at some point in my future. Some of my friends are less fortunate and I worry about them, but that doesn't mean that I feel that they have some right to mine or anyone else's money. They've spent their money somewhat poorly, while I've racked up credit card debt to teach myself new skills and get equipment to afford further learning (said debt is now repaid and long gone). I make the money I do because I have and still do work my ass off. I have never been a "privileged" kid so I know for a fact that where there is a will there is a way. If you don't want to put in that effort I'm cool with that. Seriously, it takes all kinds. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you have a right to be carried on someone else's back. (not you specifically of course :) )
makecheck 18y ago
I'm not saying that it is impossible to have "earned" wealth. There surely are people who work their butts off to be where they are. However, consider a few things. Opportunities and luck have really played a role in the wealth of many people, and some have barely lifted a finger to become rich. There are people who make far, far too little money for the effort they put in, even in Western countries. These people have sacrificed enough. There is no point making them destroy their income to pay for a road, when a rich man could cover the whole thing without even blinking an eye. On the subject of risk. While becoming rich can definitely require serious risks, it takes far less risk to remain rich, or become ridiculously richer. Is it really a "risk" anymore to bet a million dollars on something, when you have a billion? These "risks" are widely available to rich people, and would be considered insane for even the middle class to invest in. The super-wealthy simply reach a point where risk is not really required to continue living comfortably. Whereas, some people making $25,000 are doing really dangerous jobs, risking their families' futures, only to stay afloat.
- darkxanthos 18y ago
  RE: Opportunities and luck and not doing much to earn your money First off: It's still their money. If someone has 100 cars and I lost mine is it ok for me to steal one of his? Damn tempting sure, but not ok. 2nd: Working my butt off != productive. My ex-father-in-law owns his own pool care business. He works his ass to the bone. He's coming up near retirement and he's in a position where he could take on new workers but instead he just chooses to work. He doesn't want to hassle with employees. I think it's a lot of extra work and he's the greatest guy in the world but he's not being as productive as he could be. When it's time for him to retire he will probably have little to no money to live off of due to his and his wife's poor spending habits. I love them both, but do they deserve to take my money or someone else's? No. Does that mean I wouldn't help them out if I could? No, of course I would... but that's my choice. RE: These people have sacrificed enough. If that road doesn't improve their overall quality of life then maybe it shouldn't be built. That's a whole other topic of debate. It's almost as though generating wealth makes people feel guilty. I think it's wrong that I should be made to feel compelled to give my money away since I earned it and since I can always choose for myself whether or not I will do that. I'm all for charities because those are completely optional. Just don't have the government come to my door and demand I give more money to help so and so or else I will be taken to jail (tax evasion). RE: Risk Just having money does not beget more money. You still do need to know how to use it wisely. There are many wolves who would love for you to piddle your money away on their worthless services. Also, "betting" a million dollars is a risk because that's my money! And for 99.99% of people it's a pretty big risk to boot. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm still digesting these ideas and deciding how far I believe in them but I'm not sure whether it being fair has anything to do with it. If someone inherits money and they're rich for that reason, then I really am not sure what is ideal and I'd default to if that's what the person who earned the wealth wanted then shrug.

darkxanthos 18y ago

As an addendum to this I'd like to say I'd love to tax SOME of the rich more. The ones who aren't creating real value for the economy and who are really just leeching off of others' ideas and stifling growth (coughauto industrycough for ex).

nollidge 18y ago

"Because it's my money that I earned that represents my hard work and the risks I've taken to generate that wealth." Interesting. I, for one, am reticent to take credit for having been conceived by a pair of white, upper-middle-class, nurturing people. Nor do I wish to take credit for living in a society in which every one of my medical needs are accounted for without any effort on my part. Nor do I take credit for finding myself in an economy that values my particular skill set (for now, at least).

darkxanthos 18y ago
I lived most of my childhood buying clothes from thrift stores since that was all my waitress single mother could afford. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination but I am definitely upper middle class now and it's conceivable that I could be wealthy at some point in my future. Some of my friends are less fortunate and I worry about them, but that doesn't mean that I feel that they have some right to mine or anyone else's money. They've spent their money somewhat poorly, while I've racked up credit card debt to teach myself new skills and get equipment to afford further learning (said debt is now repaid and long gone). I make the money I do because I have and still do work my ass off. I have never been a "privileged" kid so I know for a fact that where there is a will there is a way. If you don't want to put in that effort I'm cool with that. Seriously, it takes all kinds. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you have a right to be carried on someone else's back. (not you specifically of course :) )

makecheck 18y ago

I'm not saying that it is impossible to have "earned" wealth. There surely are people who work their butts off to be where they are. However, consider a few things. Opportunities and luck have really played a role in the wealth of many people, and some have barely lifted a finger to become rich. There are people who make far, far too little money for the effort they put in, even in Western countries. These people have sacrificed enough. There is no point making them destroy their income to pay for a road, when a rich man could cover the whole thing without even blinking an eye. On the subject of risk. While becoming rich can definitely require serious risks, it takes far less risk to remain rich, or become ridiculously richer. Is it really a "risk" anymore to bet a million dollars on something, when you have a billion? These "risks" are widely available to rich people, and would be considered insane for even the middle class to invest in. The super-wealthy simply reach a point where risk is not really required to continue living comfortably. Whereas, some people making $25,000 are doing really dangerous jobs, risking their families' futures, only to stay afloat.

darkxanthos 18y ago
RE: Opportunities and luck and not doing much to earn your money First off: It's still their money. If someone has 100 cars and I lost mine is it ok for me to steal one of his? Damn tempting sure, but not ok. 2nd: Working my butt off != productive. My ex-father-in-law owns his own pool care business. He works his ass to the bone. He's coming up near retirement and he's in a position where he could take on new workers but instead he just chooses to work. He doesn't want to hassle with employees. I think it's a lot of extra work and he's the greatest guy in the world but he's not being as productive as he could be. When it's time for him to retire he will probably have little to no money to live off of due to his and his wife's poor spending habits. I love them both, but do they deserve to take my money or someone else's? No. Does that mean I wouldn't help them out if I could? No, of course I would... but that's my choice. RE: These people have sacrificed enough. If that road doesn't improve their overall quality of life then maybe it shouldn't be built. That's a whole other topic of debate. It's almost as though generating wealth makes people feel guilty. I think it's wrong that I should be made to feel compelled to give my money away since I earned it and since I can always choose for myself whether or not I will do that. I'm all for charities because those are completely optional. Just don't have the government come to my door and demand I give more money to help so and so or else I will be taken to jail (tax evasion). RE: Risk Just having money does not beget more money. You still do need to know how to use it wisely. There are many wolves who would love for you to piddle your money away on their worthless services. Also, "betting" a million dollars is a risk because that's my money! And for 99.99% of people it's a pretty big risk to boot. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm still digesting these ideas and deciding how far I believe in them but I'm not sure whether it being fair has anything to do with it. If someone inherits money and they're rich for that reason, then I really am not sure what is ideal and I'd default to if that's what the person who earned the wealth wanted then shrug.