8 ms·

>The reporters found nearly 800 officers who reached speeds of 90-130 mph, many of them while off duty. The accidents caused by officers driving at high speeds

by jere 14y ago

>The reporters found nearly 800 officers who reached speeds of 90-130 mph, many of them while off duty. The accidents caused by officers driving at high speeds had caused at least 320 crashes since 2004, killing or maiming 21 people. That's such a horrifying statistic if true. Even at their peak, homicide offending rates in the US were at around 20 per 100,000; assault rates about 10 times as high: http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, but in my mind I'm comparing 20 homicides per 100,000 citizens to to 21 people killed/maimed by a group that is orders of magnitude smaller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Police_Department http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Police_Department I think this is just another reminder that Bruce Schneier is right when he says we should be more worried about car accidents than terrorism.

knowtheory 14y ago
> That's such a horrifying statistic if true. What more evidence do you want of it's truth? The story's right there. you can see how they reported it. The data is searchable.
- jere 14y ago
  The speeding data, yes. I don't know where I'd get access to the 21 killed or maimed though beyond the story. But sure, I probably don't have a good reason to believe the numbers are inaccurate.
civilian 14y ago
Over the period of 2004-2011. So divide by 7. You should also try to find the vehicular death per 100k statistic.
- mrmaddog 14y ago
  Exactly. Per Wikipedia it is about 12 deaths per 100k on average from the period of 2004-2012. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_...
  - civilian 14y ago
    Huh! So we're at 3 deaths/maims per year for X number of cops, vs. 12 deaths per 100k for the general populace. It's all about the division at this point. How many cops were there in that region? If it's just Miami-Dade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-Dade_Police_Department http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-Dade_Police_Department Officers 3,034 soooo.... 3 * (100/3) = 100 deaths per 100k of police population. Which is 8x the normal rate. It's bad, but it's not too outrageous.
    - vacri 14y ago
      Apples and oranges. The number in the article is 'crashes caused by officers driving at high speed', the general pop statistic is all vehicular deaths. Similarly, deaths per 100k is the rate of victimisation amongst the population. Deaths per number of officers is a rate of offending, not victimisation.
      - civilian 14y ago
        Right. There are a lot of improvements to be made, but I'm just trying to make a quick estimate to compare to.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
discountgenius 14y ago
> "800 officers who reached speeds of 90-130 mph" Technically, couldn't this be 799 guys who meant to go 85 but drifted up to 90 and one jerk who went 130?
- bobwaycott 14y ago
  Technically, the data is there to answer this question.
corwinstephen 14y ago
Frustrating? Yes. Shocking? No. Did anyone really believe that taking a job as a police officer somehow suppressed these people's natural desire to drive fast? Hell, that's probably what make them join the force in the first place. Sure, it's irresponsible and illegal for off-duty officers to speed, but it's also irresponsible and illegal for regular citizens to speed, and yet that doesn't seem to stop them from doing it. Why would you expect the cops to be any different? Do you hold them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because of what they do for a living? Being a police officer is a job. Unless you wanna have robots do it instead, people are going to do what people are going to do.
- yew 14y ago
  Do you hold them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because of what they do for a living? Yes! Of course! Being an officer may be 'just a job', but in practice the hat doesn't come off. Which is the entire point - police officers occupy a particular position in society regardless of whether or not they're wearing a badge at the moment. That's not the same thing as saying that I'm surprised that they're still human, though.
  - talmand 14y ago
    I agree. An off-duty cop is just off the clock. By the way the news reads there really is no such thing as an off-duty cop. A cop is always on the job. Describing a cop as off-duty suggests that he suddenly becomes a normal citizen like everyone else once the clock is punched at the end of the shift. But I'm willing to bet an off-duty cop has no issues with using police powers, if necessary, while off the clock.
- jere 14y ago
  >Sure, it's irresponsible and illegal for off-duty officers to speed, but it's also irresponsible and illegal for regular citizens to speed, and yet that doesn't seem to stop them from doing it. Why would you expect the cops to be any different? Do you hold them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because of what they do for a living? a) A higher standard? Sure. I suppose I'm extremely naive, but if you spend your day punishing people for doing X, I think you should have an appreciation for why you shouldn't be doing X or at least be a role model for not doing X. b) I actually wouldn't guess that, among the general populace, the majority of people regularly speed at 90-130. Again, that's probably naive. I drive like an elderly person, so I may be biased.
SoftwareMaven 14y ago
I don't think the accidents and deaths are limited to the 800 officers they identified. The set of officers speeding is certainly greater than the set of officers identified as speeding, and the accidents would probably be from the former set.
fludlight 14y ago
They didn't just reach speeds of 130mph, but average speeds of 130mph over a distance of several miles. Their maximum speed was probably closer to 150-180.
- freehunter 14y ago
  I want to know what cars these officers are driving that are capable of 150-180mph, or capable of sustaining speeds of 130mph over a significant distance. From my knowledge, 150 is a fairly exclusive club limited to not-inexpensive performance cars, and 180 is a very hard target to meet, mostly at the feet of German luxury cars. I know police officers don't make six figures, so the question is what car are they in that can hit 130 sustained, and 150-180 max?
  - dopamean 14y ago
    Florida Highway Patrol has some seriously beefed up vehicles. As someone who used to run from the cops on my motorcycle semi-frequently I do have to say that I'm not aware of any that could get up to 180 though.
  - rdouble 14y ago
    There are a police versions of the Dodge Charger Dodge Challenger and a new police version of the Chevy Caprice. When I recently drove across the south I saw many highway patrols had the Challenger. That said, nobody is driving 180mph in a sedan on American roads. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/nyregion/21cars.html http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/nyregion/21cars.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-19/chevy-s-cop-cruiser-muscle-car-hits-154-mph-nabs-perps.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-19/chevy-s-cop-cruiser... http://www.allpar.com/squads/police-cars/challenger.html http://www.allpar.com/squads/police-cars/challenger.html
fyi80 14y ago
> we should be more worried about car accidents than terrorism. And we should be more worried about the "watchers" than the "watched".
wololo 14y ago
> we should be more worried about car accidents than terrorism doesn't terrorism scale better, though?

by jere 14y ago

knowtheory 14y ago

> That's such a horrifying statistic if true. What more evidence do you want of it's truth? The story's right there. you can see how they reported it. The data is searchable.

jere 14y ago
The speeding data, yes. I don't know where I'd get access to the 21 killed or maimed though beyond the story. But sure, I probably don't have a good reason to believe the numbers are inaccurate.

civilian 14y ago

Over the period of 2004-2011. So divide by 7. You should also try to find the vehicular death per 100k statistic.

mrmaddog 14y ago
Exactly. Per Wikipedia it is about 12 deaths per 100k on average from the period of 2004-2012. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_...
- civilian 14y ago
  Huh! So we're at 3 deaths/maims per year for X number of cops, vs. 12 deaths per 100k for the general populace. It's all about the division at this point. How many cops were there in that region? If it's just Miami-Dade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-Dade_Police_Department http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-Dade_Police_Department Officers 3,034 soooo.... 3 * (100/3) = 100 deaths per 100k of police population. Which is 8x the normal rate. It's bad, but it's not too outrageous.
  - vacri 14y ago
    Apples and oranges. The number in the article is 'crashes caused by officers driving at high speed', the general pop statistic is all vehicular deaths. Similarly, deaths per 100k is the rate of victimisation amongst the population. Deaths per number of officers is a rate of offending, not victimisation.
    - civilian 14y ago
      Right. There are a lot of improvements to be made, but I'm just trying to make a quick estimate to compare to.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]

discountgenius 14y ago

> "800 officers who reached speeds of 90-130 mph" Technically, couldn't this be 799 guys who meant to go 85 but drifted up to 90 and one jerk who went 130?

bobwaycott 14y ago
Technically, the data is there to answer this question.

corwinstephen 14y ago

Frustrating? Yes. Shocking? No. Did anyone really believe that taking a job as a police officer somehow suppressed these people's natural desire to drive fast? Hell, that's probably what make them join the force in the first place. Sure, it's irresponsible and illegal for off-duty officers to speed, but it's also irresponsible and illegal for regular citizens to speed, and yet that doesn't seem to stop them from doing it. Why would you expect the cops to be any different? Do you hold them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because of what they do for a living? Being a police officer is a job. Unless you wanna have robots do it instead, people are going to do what people are going to do.

yew 14y ago
Do you hold them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because of what they do for a living? Yes! Of course! Being an officer may be 'just a job', but in practice the hat doesn't come off. Which is the entire point - police officers occupy a particular position in society regardless of whether or not they're wearing a badge at the moment. That's not the same thing as saying that I'm surprised that they're still human, though.
- talmand 14y ago
  I agree. An off-duty cop is just off the clock. By the way the news reads there really is no such thing as an off-duty cop. A cop is always on the job. Describing a cop as off-duty suggests that he suddenly becomes a normal citizen like everyone else once the clock is punched at the end of the shift. But I'm willing to bet an off-duty cop has no issues with using police powers, if necessary, while off the clock.
jere 14y ago
>Sure, it's irresponsible and illegal for off-duty officers to speed, but it's also irresponsible and illegal for regular citizens to speed, and yet that doesn't seem to stop them from doing it. Why would you expect the cops to be any different? Do you hold them to a higher level of moral responsibility during their off time because of what they do for a living? a) A higher standard? Sure. I suppose I'm extremely naive, but if you spend your day punishing people for doing X, I think you should have an appreciation for why you shouldn't be doing X or at least be a role model for not doing X. b) I actually wouldn't guess that, among the general populace, the majority of people regularly speed at 90-130. Again, that's probably naive. I drive like an elderly person, so I may be biased.

SoftwareMaven 14y ago

I don't think the accidents and deaths are limited to the 800 officers they identified. The set of officers speeding is certainly greater than the set of officers identified as speeding, and the accidents would probably be from the former set.

fludlight 14y ago

They didn't just reach speeds of 130mph, but average speeds of 130mph over a distance of several miles. Their maximum speed was probably closer to 150-180.

freehunter 14y ago
I want to know what cars these officers are driving that are capable of 150-180mph, or capable of sustaining speeds of 130mph over a significant distance. From my knowledge, 150 is a fairly exclusive club limited to not-inexpensive performance cars, and 180 is a very hard target to meet, mostly at the feet of German luxury cars. I know police officers don't make six figures, so the question is what car are they in that can hit 130 sustained, and 150-180 max?
- dopamean 14y ago
  Florida Highway Patrol has some seriously beefed up vehicles. As someone who used to run from the cops on my motorcycle semi-frequently I do have to say that I'm not aware of any that could get up to 180 though.
- rdouble 14y ago
  There are a police versions of the Dodge Charger Dodge Challenger and a new police version of the Chevy Caprice. When I recently drove across the south I saw many highway patrols had the Challenger. That said, nobody is driving 180mph in a sedan on American roads. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/nyregion/21cars.html http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/nyregion/21cars.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-19/chevy-s-cop-cruiser-muscle-car-hits-154-mph-nabs-perps.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-19/chevy-s-cop-cruiser... http://www.allpar.com/squads/police-cars/challenger.html http://www.allpar.com/squads/police-cars/challenger.html

fyi80 14y ago

> we should be more worried about car accidents than terrorism. And we should be more worried about the "watchers" than the "watched".

wololo 14y ago

> we should be more worried about car accidents than terrorism doesn't terrorism scale better, though?