4 ms·

Ah, right. No women in tech because they're not very good at it. Gotcha.

kamaal 13y ago
Sorry, where did I say that? I only say there must be a level playing field so that hard working women get same chances as men. Reservations create a scenario where you are lower the entry bar for A group of people. While keeping it high for B group of people. Net result is there will no motivation for A set of people to try anything extra since they are guaranteed an entry anyway. At the same a certain set of people from B will stop doing any good work because regardless of their work, A's are going to get their chances. The whole system collapses. India has tried this for the past 60 years. The situation has only gone worse. Work should be done to help women win without reservations.
- anthonyb 13y ago
  You dance around it, but that's what you're saying. What else would explain the < 5% female speaker rate at conferences? Obviously the good women are making it, and the rest... just aren't very good. "Reservations" or whatever you want to call them are lowering the bar to the same level as other people, but of course the "B"s are going to scream blue murder because they now have to work instead of cruising.
  - woah 13y ago
    Does anybody know the proportion of women in tech? If there is a lower proportion of women speaking at conferences than in the industries that the conferences are about, you may have a point.
  - klipt 13y ago
    Or maybe there are just more men than women in tech to start off with (in which case it's hardly surprising there are also more men at conferences). The problem needs to be fixed at the middle school level (or earlier) where girls are discouraged from technical subjects.
    - kamaal 13y ago
      The worst I've seen is Mechanical Engineering course in my engineering. In all my four years of Engineering course. There wasn't one single girl in all four batches of Mechanical Engineering branch.
  - gnarbarian 13y ago
    Women do not constitute 50% of the people in tech it makes sense for them to be a minority when presenting. Why are they a minority in tech in the first place? Well video games got me and most of my friends into tech, and when I was in high-school in the mid 90s most girls abhorred games and considered them childish and geeky. It was a serious social faux pas to be a tech geek who loved hacking around with computers and playing video games. I never met a single girl in the 90s who was into it beyond playing an occasional game of Mario Kart. Who are we to blame for that?
  - kamaal 13y ago
    I will call for a reservation policy if you show me instances where a good well deserved talk from a women was rejected at a conference just because she is a woman. Are there cases where a talk from a woman was judged not because of its merit but because the speaker's gender? If all woman who have good talks are getting their chances, I don't even see a problem here.
icelancer 13y ago
Have we considered the underlying issues that might actually make your strawman argument true?
belorn 13y ago
That's a horrible comment that deserve being down voted into the ground. Not only is it a strawman argument, but it also reiterates sexist claims about women. At best, your comment gets ignored and worst, the comment will work against creating gender equality.
- anthonyb 13y ago
  It's not a strawman, it's called argumentum ad absurdum. If we take his premise as true: > If some one is good, they will win anyway. If they are not, they can't and won't. The conclusion from that is that the lack of women in tech is because they're not very good at it. If women were good at tech, then from his statement there would be more of them (they would "win anyway"). This is clearly absurd - hence he's wrong, or at least needs to support/make his argument a little better. Do I really need to stick </sarcasm> tags on everything?
return0 13y ago
Snarky comments are not constructive. You have to back up your opinion with facts either way.

Sorry, where did I say that? I only say there must be a level playing field so that hard working women get same chances as men. Reservations create a scenario where you are lower the entry bar for A group of people. While keeping it high for B group of people. Net result is there will no motivation for A set of people to try anything extra since they are guaranteed an entry anyway. At the same a certain set of people from B will stop doing any good work because regardless of their work, A's are going to get their chances. The whole system collapses. India has tried this for the past 60 years. The situation has only gone worse. Work should be done to help women win without reservations.

anthonyb 13y ago
You dance around it, but that's what you're saying. What else would explain the < 5% female speaker rate at conferences? Obviously the good women are making it, and the rest... just aren't very good. "Reservations" or whatever you want to call them are lowering the bar to the same level as other people, but of course the "B"s are going to scream blue murder because they now have to work instead of cruising.
- woah 13y ago
  Does anybody know the proportion of women in tech? If there is a lower proportion of women speaking at conferences than in the industries that the conferences are about, you may have a point.
- klipt 13y ago
  Or maybe there are just more men than women in tech to start off with (in which case it's hardly surprising there are also more men at conferences). The problem needs to be fixed at the middle school level (or earlier) where girls are discouraged from technical subjects.
  - kamaal 13y ago
    The worst I've seen is Mechanical Engineering course in my engineering. In all my four years of Engineering course. There wasn't one single girl in all four batches of Mechanical Engineering branch.
- gnarbarian 13y ago
  Women do not constitute 50% of the people in tech it makes sense for them to be a minority when presenting. Why are they a minority in tech in the first place? Well video games got me and most of my friends into tech, and when I was in high-school in the mid 90s most girls abhorred games and considered them childish and geeky. It was a serious social faux pas to be a tech geek who loved hacking around with computers and playing video games. I never met a single girl in the 90s who was into it beyond playing an occasional game of Mario Kart. Who are we to blame for that?
- kamaal 13y ago
  I will call for a reservation policy if you show me instances where a good well deserved talk from a women was rejected at a conference just because she is a woman. Are there cases where a talk from a woman was judged not because of its merit but because the speaker's gender? If all woman who have good talks are getting their chances, I don't even see a problem here.

icelancer 13y ago

Have we considered the underlying issues that might actually make your strawman argument true?

belorn 13y ago

That's a horrible comment that deserve being down voted into the ground. Not only is it a strawman argument, but it also reiterates sexist claims about women. At best, your comment gets ignored and worst, the comment will work against creating gender equality.

anthonyb 13y ago
It's not a strawman, it's called argumentum ad absurdum. If we take his premise as true: > If some one is good, they will win anyway. If they are not, they can't and won't. The conclusion from that is that the lack of women in tech is because they're not very good at it. If women were good at tech, then from his statement there would be more of them (they would "win anyway"). This is clearly absurd - hence he's wrong, or at least needs to support/make his argument a little better. Do I really need to stick </sarcasm> tags on everything?

return0 13y ago

Snarky comments are not constructive. You have to back up your opinion with facts either way.