7 ms·

I honestly don't understand DRM in html specs. Most people use open source browsers. To crack the "DRM" all you would need to do is open up the source code an

I honestly don't understand DRM in html specs. Most people use open source browsers. To crack the "DRM" all you would need to do is open up the source code and slightly modify it. DRM only works when either the client side code hasn't been cracked or when the server side requires clients to log in. The first is impossible with open source, and the second is already a part of html.

brigade 14y ago
Which indeed is why the implementations aren't going to be open source. The last I saw of the design, the intention was to put the entirety of decryption, decode, and display into a binary browser plugin and the HTML5 parts were only the bare minimum needed to push encrypted data to said plugin.
- azakai 14y ago
  Yes, this is precisely the idea of the second of the three technologies mentioned (encrypted media extensions) - let HTML5 video interface with a separate opaque binary plugin that implements DRM. Of course such binary plugins will be browser- and OS-specific, so this is going to result in a lot of problems, and goes against the spirit of the web.
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
The DRM doesn't happen in the browser, it happens either in the OS or on a hardware component. Encrypted Media Extension just provides a way to communication with the DRM component. It's up to the web page to choose what type of DRM they accept. Expect most to require DRM on the hardware. This means "premium" video is going to be fragmented. Big companies like Apple, Samsung, Microsoft will get it, open source operating systems and DIY devices will not.
- laumars 14y ago
  > This means "premium" video is going to be fragmented. Big companies like Apple, Samsung, Microsoft will get it, open source operating systems and DIY devices will not. People said the same about DVD and bluray DRM, yet they've been cracked and open source drivers distributed. Though it's sad that it ever had to come to that.
  - fungi 14y ago
    cracked and work's out of the box are two different things... practically and legally. i dont care about netflix... like the vast majority of the internet, they dont even operate in my market. yet their greed is going to fragment the internet that i make a living from... all they are doing is ramming a new version of shitty proprietary plugins/binary blobs down our throats.
    - laumars 14y ago
      > cracked and work's out of the box are two different things... practically and legally. libdvdcss works out of the box and is completely legal in Europe. It's the Americans that stand to lose more by imposing DRM extensions on the internet. At least if they're part of HTML, the technology can be reverse engineered and made cross-platform. With the current mess we're stuck with having to run Silverlight DRM extensions in WINE. So as much as I hate DRM, I'd sooner see it part of an open and cross platform spec than have content locked to specific software that only runs on specific platforms.
      - fungi 14y ago
        > open and cross platform Fail to see how this is anymore open and cross platform then NPAPI. > content locked to specific software that only runs on specific platforms. that is exactly what this delivers.
- jaggederest 14y ago
  The issue still stands - you could easily engineer a component that just pipes the output directly to disk instead of displaying it.
  - bzbarsky 14y ago
    That depends. If the DRM black-box is talking directly to the display hardware, you might not be able to do this. Of course then your video will also not be subject to things like CSS opacity, clips, rounded corners, etc, etc...
eridius 14y ago
DRM isn't in html specs. This is just a standardized interface to a vendor-supplied DRM component.
mehrzad 14y ago
>Most people use open source browsers Technically not true.
- eikenberry 14y ago
  Depends which stats you look at. Some say it is true other not so much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Summary_table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Su...
  - mehrzad 14y ago
    Chrome, Safari, and soon Opera are mostly open source, but not totally.
    - pornel 14y ago
      The distinction is especially important in case of video. Only Google's own build of Chrome has license for H.264 and MP3 codecs and Netflix DRM plugin, and Chromium doesn't.

brigade 14y ago

Which indeed is why the implementations aren't going to be open source. The last I saw of the design, the intention was to put the entirety of decryption, decode, and display into a binary browser plugin and the HTML5 parts were only the bare minimum needed to push encrypted data to said plugin.

azakai 14y ago
Yes, this is precisely the idea of the second of the three technologies mentioned (encrypted media extensions) - let HTML5 video interface with a separate opaque binary plugin that implements DRM. Of course such binary plugins will be browser- and OS-specific, so this is going to result in a lot of problems, and goes against the spirit of the web.

MatthewPhillips 14y ago

The DRM doesn't happen in the browser, it happens either in the OS or on a hardware component. Encrypted Media Extension just provides a way to communication with the DRM component. It's up to the web page to choose what type of DRM they accept. Expect most to require DRM on the hardware. This means "premium" video is going to be fragmented. Big companies like Apple, Samsung, Microsoft will get it, open source operating systems and DIY devices will not.

laumars 14y ago
> This means "premium" video is going to be fragmented. Big companies like Apple, Samsung, Microsoft will get it, open source operating systems and DIY devices will not. People said the same about DVD and bluray DRM, yet they've been cracked and open source drivers distributed. Though it's sad that it ever had to come to that.
- fungi 14y ago
  cracked and work's out of the box are two different things... practically and legally. i dont care about netflix... like the vast majority of the internet, they dont even operate in my market. yet their greed is going to fragment the internet that i make a living from... all they are doing is ramming a new version of shitty proprietary plugins/binary blobs down our throats.
  - laumars 14y ago
    > cracked and work's out of the box are two different things... practically and legally. libdvdcss works out of the box and is completely legal in Europe. It's the Americans that stand to lose more by imposing DRM extensions on the internet. At least if they're part of HTML, the technology can be reverse engineered and made cross-platform. With the current mess we're stuck with having to run Silverlight DRM extensions in WINE. So as much as I hate DRM, I'd sooner see it part of an open and cross platform spec than have content locked to specific software that only runs on specific platforms.
    - fungi 14y ago
      > open and cross platform Fail to see how this is anymore open and cross platform then NPAPI. > content locked to specific software that only runs on specific platforms. that is exactly what this delivers.
jaggederest 14y ago
The issue still stands - you could easily engineer a component that just pipes the output directly to disk instead of displaying it.
- bzbarsky 14y ago
  That depends. If the DRM black-box is talking directly to the display hardware, you might not be able to do this. Of course then your video will also not be subject to things like CSS opacity, clips, rounded corners, etc, etc...

eridius 14y ago

DRM isn't in html specs. This is just a standardized interface to a vendor-supplied DRM component.

mehrzad 14y ago

>Most people use open source browsers Technically not true.

eikenberry 14y ago
Depends which stats you look at. Some say it is true other not so much. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Summary_table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Su...
- mehrzad 14y ago
  Chrome, Safari, and soon Opera are mostly open source, but not totally.
  - pornel 14y ago
    The distinction is especially important in case of video. Only Google's own build of Chrome has license for H.264 and MP3 codecs and Netflix DRM plugin, and Chromium doesn't.