5 ms·

Poll: What would it take for another company to poach you?

29 points by ghempton 14y ago

rdl 14y ago
I'm probably different (my own startup), but the only things which would make me M&A exit would be: 1) Chance to work on a dramatically more interesting problem (I'd probably jump ship in 15 minutes to do seriously credible human Mars settlement, or space cannon/ram accelerator for a $1/MB LEO sat constellation, or a viable way to deploy blinded ecash globally, or a US Senate seat or SCOTUS appointment, or "Commander, ISAF" so I could effect the complete withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan within 6 months...) 2) A more effective way to deploy my product/service to more users (i.e. if Apple wanted us to turn the OSX and iOS network infrastructure into the most secure/performant/reliable way for businesses and groups to network) More money generally wouldn't be enough; even just "go work for an immediate pre-IPO company where you're likely to get a $3mm payout if things go well, plus a $200k/yr salary" if #1 or #2 weren't met. SpaceX is really the only place which meets #1 and viable pre-IPO in the next year I think.
- ibdknox 14y ago
  Having my own startup as well, it's hard for me to imagine #1 really working out in any meaningful way since you'd be coming from the outside. In order for the work to really be interesting to me, I would still have to be able to be the primary decision maker and it's rare (at best) that someone from outside the organization would be put in that position. M&A only really makes sense to me in the #2 case, where the merger actually better enables us to deliver our product. I certainly think there are cases where acquisition can be a boon to your users, we just don't hear about them as much. For money to be a motivating factor, though, it would have to be enough to ensure that I could fulfill our promise to our users and also bankroll working on one of the problems from #1 :)
  - ChuckMcM 14y ago
    " In order for the work to really be interesting to me, I would still have to be able to be the primary decision maker and it's rare (at best) that someone from outside the organization would be put in that position." Can you say more about this? I ask because it is a common reason people go and start their own company. The risk of course is if you decide wrong your company goes out of business. I've suggested to folks a contract, basically they have some idea that is going to change the world, and I'm willing to give them fully autonomous authority to make the decisions, with the caveat that we define the success criteria of the idea, which is to say a measurable way to say that they have achieved success or not, and a timeline for when that has to be met. They have to agree that if they don't meet the criteria they're out of a job. The goal is to tie "primary decision maker" to "is most directly impacted by". That binding is a natural pair when doing your own company, it's less natural when you are in a larger company. I've found when my decisions could affect the future of someone "above" me in the food chain, that made them quite nervous if they didn't trust my decision making ability. I wonder sometimes if this request for decision making authority is really a request to be trusted. Would be interested in thoughts on that.
    - ibdknox 14y ago
      This is actually something I've considered quite a bit and I've come to realize that I think there's a certain amount of megalomania necessary to be a "primary decision maker". You have to genuinely believe that you can make better decisions than most. In my case, however, the motivator isn't megalomania so much as my need to address problems - I see problems everywhere and in every case in which I've worked for someone, I've largely been forced to just stew in them. To some degree I think I agree with you that what this ultimately comes down to is trust - trust that I can fix this, or that I can make blah happen. I've worked for some great people who did trust me, but unfortunately someone up the chain didn't. To make any real impact I think you have to be willing to take some serious risks and when you're that far away from the problem, it's hard to imagine why those risks are worth taking. In any sufficiently large organization, preaching a disparate vision is bound to hit a wall, because somewhere in there is another guy just like you - someone crazy enough to start a company because they believe in their own vision.
      - rdl 14y ago
        I don't think I'd have a preference in roles in a sufficiently good team.
        ibdknox 14y ago
        That could very well be the case for me and I just haven't been part of a "sufficiently good team." :)
  - rdl 14y ago
    I'd also seriously consider "job in NZ" or "job in Estonia or Czech Republic", although I guess I could just do corp relo there.
justadream 14y ago
Green card.
- kami8845 14y ago
  Hell, I'd work for free AND learn Java for a green card.
staunch 14y ago
I've often thought that a company could recruit really great people by restricting the work week to three days and paying a proportionately lower salary.
- jskulski 14y ago
  I would love this.
- rdl 14y ago
  That would be particularly interesting in segments where either the standard is 60-100h/wk (games), or where 3 day/week people actually would be more useful (certain kinds of consulting or incident response? I don't know)
- laluser 14y ago
  Like working part-time? What's the difference?
  - ksherlock 14y ago
    Some companies have reduced (or no) benefits for part time employees. Less tuition reimbursement (now that you have time to actually use it...), more out of pocket health insurance expenses (now that you're being paid less...). There's also a corporate culture where anyone working part time or remote isn't as committed to the company. Guess who's first in line for layoffs?
- ekimekim 14y ago
  You'd probably also need more careful contracts when it comes to stuff done outside of work, so it is feasible for someone to do two of these jobs at the same time, or one and a personal project.
- darrhiggs 14y ago
  I'm happy freelancing ~10hrs a week and earning about the UK's average wage. Three days a week at a company would be perfect.
andymoe 14y ago
1,2 and 4 but "Significantly more money" and competent recruiters mostly. Nothing turns me off to a perspective employer like having to tell their recruter to re-read the email I just sent back to them.
mikeash 14y ago
Where's the "none of the above"? I'd require substantial control over my own destiny and a fairly huge salary/signing bonus to even think about it.
sbashyal 14y ago
I created HN Charts to visualize HN Poll data. Click the following link to visualize the result of this poll in a chart: http://hnlike.com/hncharts/chart/?id=5554681 http://hnlike.com/hncharts/chart/?id=5554681
- adamgravitis 14y ago
  I'm actually doing pretty OK visualizing these results in my head... :-)
lanstein 14y ago
No 'more equity'?
TheRealDunkirk 14y ago
Where's the "'bout tree-fiddy" option?
adkatrit 14y ago
any company that is willing to pay me full time to work remotely on interesting problems. So I can be with the people I care about at night and not have to relocate.
- olalonde 14y ago
  Same here. I'd be willing to get half the salary I'd normally get if it meant I could work from anywhere (which I am actually doing right now).
Fzzr 14y ago
You didn't list "Better Work Environment", which would have been my answer.
DigitalSea 14y ago
I am pretty sure the primary motivator for people being poached is money and the second is a great place to work. The economy is going down the toilet globally again and groceries/cost of living isn't going down either.
sgpl 14y ago
I upvoted all four options, and it wasn't really about what would it take to poach me, but more about what would constitute the ideal/perfect mix. Keeping with the above sentiment, I'd add: # smart(er) co-workers # smart & understanding management/bosses. # well designed/planned work environments # skin in the game I'm in my early 20s, and I'm positive that this list might look different for someone in his 30s, 40s or 50s, etc.
cperciva 14y ago
The biggest question for me is "would they do a better job of running Tarsnap than I can do?" I built Tarsnap because I want the world to have good, secure, online backups; it's a profitable corporation simply because that's the most natural form for a backup service to take. Leaving Tarsnap out of the picture -- supposing I was working at a startup instead of being the sole founder of a startup -- hiring me would involve: 1. Having a technical employee (or possibly a formerly-technical employee who has moved into management) approach me. Even the best recruiters have enough cultural mismatch with me that they utterly fail to get my attention. Rough ballpark: If I say "use the address in my whois" and you manage to contact me, you pass that test. 2. Telling what you're doing -- on the ground. I don't care about your elevator pitch, and aside from being satisfied that you can pay your bills, I don't care how profitable the company is going to be -- I'm never going to work somewhere in the hopes of getting a big IPO payout. 3. Telling me what you would want me to work on. Give specific examples of technical problems. I'm never going to move to a different city based on "we're doing lots of exciting things and we're sure you'll enjoy working here". And if you're really serious: 4. Flying me down, renting me a hotel room, and giving me a desk in your offices for a week. Don't pay me, and don't assign me work to do; just tell people that I'm there. By the end of the week, one of two things will have happened: Either I'll have spent most of the week working on my own stuff, and won't be interested in working for you, or I'll have been talking to people and solving problems and writing code and I'll be excited about joining your team.
- lifeisstillgood 14y ago
  That last one is a kicker. If you don't mind me saying you are in the top 1% though - getting you to work for the company is a win - the rest of us still need to persuade a company they want to hire us. I think I am saying I don't get enough recruiters calling me at all hours to think I can wait for ideal to come along
yesimahuman 14y ago
They couldn't. I'm much happier working for myself. I know that's a non-answer but it was an important realization for me.
lifeisstillgood 14y ago
Can I add some more options to the poll? - remote working plus monthly flights and hotels to meet the crew - collegiate atmosphere and focus on learning and experimentation
NamTaf 14y ago
More money. I enjoy the work I currently do (though it's starting to get a bit samey, a change wouldn't be bad) but I am paid woefully under what my salary should be, because I stem from a government organisation that's now gone privatised. I am strongly considering jumping ship because it's essentially costing me at least $40k/year in opportunity cost to stay in this position. That's no small chunk of money.
bpatrianakos 14y ago
Easy, equal or better pay/benefits and more interesting work. I think people have a sliding scale though. For me, excellent health insurance coverage would be a dealbreaker. I'd stay where I was if another company offered to pay me 50% more without health coverage but totally leave if they offered me 10% less with the same health coverage and more interesting work.
Beltiras 14y ago
For me at the moment: not sure it's possible, but double my salary and I would listen to the pitch. I am currently doing work on a political test that matches candidates to your views and shows you the closest match, both party and congressional candidate. Every party that put forth a list had an invitation extended to send us a list of emails for their top 5 candidates to answer the same questions. So far 45000 people out of an electorate of 220000 have gotten results from the test. 213 candidates out of 280 have responded. I really feel that I have served democracy. I'm not sure any other job could have given as much job satisfaction.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Jemaclus 14y ago
All of the above, pretty much. Right now I make a six figure salary, and on top of that, I get stock options each month worth a few grand. To successfully poach me, you'd have to convince me of each of the following: A) Your company is a better place to work than mine B) Your problems are more interesting than the ones I'm working on now C) You can pay me my current salary + a raise D) You can pay me enough to give up the remaining stock option grants for the next year (since I assume the new company will have a 1-yr cliff for stock options... also disregarding differences in option amounts). E) That your company will still be in business in at least 1 year, preferably 2. Bonus: if I get a significant amount of stock (not options) in a pre-IPO circumstance where it's likely that I'll get $1MM+ for my share post-IPO or post-acquisition. It's highly unlikely that this will come to pass. However, I may eventually become disenchanted with my current position, resign and then be willing to lower my standards.
jlarocco 14y ago
Assuming I'd get insurance, I'd take a 50% pay cut if I could work 3 days a week or work remote. If I could do 3 day weeks and work remote, I'd probably take a 60-70% pay cut. More money would be nice, but in reality it'd be a temporary thing to save more money while I searched for a part time/remote job.
spydum 14y ago
nothing brings greater happiness than being with people you enjoy hanging out with. even the work can be dull, but if it's with folks you really gel with, you can make it fun/challenging/etc.
lifeisstillgood 14y ago
Has anyone else felt that we are heading to a world populated by Untenured Prfofessors - people who effectively can sustain them selves on less than full time work and still find time for their own research?
Suitov 14y ago
Opportunity for advancement. And money. More than that, I'd be looking for a company that was amazing at staff development, really cared for its staff and stood up for them, and furthermore a company doing something I can believe in; I currently at a place that does public service work and that's not unimportant to me. I know the above is virtually all soft stuff, compared to the money and autonomy-related options in the question, but having worked in places where I felt valued and supported, and in places where I felt ignored and mistrusted, it's important.
idodevops 14y ago
I already have plenty interesting work, where I work on a semi-flexitime arrangement (part time would lead to me getting bored), where I work from home 95% of the time, with the other 5% split between the office and a cafe. So, I had to vote "more money". Other factors that could potentially turn my head: - Work that has meaning/world changing type impact. - a better team (that said, my current one is pretty awesome) - Outstanding benefits of some sort. - Toys/hardware. - Tequila (Bourbon also acceptable).
russelluresti 14y ago
Well, in ridiculous amounts, something like more money would work. Like, you offer me a million a year, I'll do the shittiest development job you have to offer for 5 years and retire. But, assuming all things are equal, I would go with the job that allowed me to work whenever/wherever. Mainly because I'd love to work from home and travel at my leisure. Being able to book a trip overseas for a few months and just work from wherever I'm at is worth more to me than money or the type of work I'd be doing.

29 points by ghempton 14y ago

rdl 14y ago

I'm probably different (my own startup), but the only things which would make me M&A exit would be: 1) Chance to work on a dramatically more interesting problem (I'd probably jump ship in 15 minutes to do seriously credible human Mars settlement, or space cannon/ram accelerator for a $1/MB LEO sat constellation, or a viable way to deploy blinded ecash globally, or a US Senate seat or SCOTUS appointment, or "Commander, ISAF" so I could effect the complete withdrawal of US forces from Afghanistan within 6 months...) 2) A more effective way to deploy my product/service to more users (i.e. if Apple wanted us to turn the OSX and iOS network infrastructure into the most secure/performant/reliable way for businesses and groups to network) More money generally wouldn't be enough; even just "go work for an immediate pre-IPO company where you're likely to get a $3mm payout if things go well, plus a $200k/yr salary" if #1 or #2 weren't met. SpaceX is really the only place which meets #1 and viable pre-IPO in the next year I think.

ibdknox 14y ago
Having my own startup as well, it's hard for me to imagine #1 really working out in any meaningful way since you'd be coming from the outside. In order for the work to really be interesting to me, I would still have to be able to be the primary decision maker and it's rare (at best) that someone from outside the organization would be put in that position. M&A only really makes sense to me in the #2 case, where the merger actually better enables us to deliver our product. I certainly think there are cases where acquisition can be a boon to your users, we just don't hear about them as much. For money to be a motivating factor, though, it would have to be enough to ensure that I could fulfill our promise to our users and also bankroll working on one of the problems from #1 :)
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  " In order for the work to really be interesting to me, I would still have to be able to be the primary decision maker and it's rare (at best) that someone from outside the organization would be put in that position." Can you say more about this? I ask because it is a common reason people go and start their own company. The risk of course is if you decide wrong your company goes out of business. I've suggested to folks a contract, basically they have some idea that is going to change the world, and I'm willing to give them fully autonomous authority to make the decisions, with the caveat that we define the success criteria of the idea, which is to say a measurable way to say that they have achieved success or not, and a timeline for when that has to be met. They have to agree that if they don't meet the criteria they're out of a job. The goal is to tie "primary decision maker" to "is most directly impacted by". That binding is a natural pair when doing your own company, it's less natural when you are in a larger company. I've found when my decisions could affect the future of someone "above" me in the food chain, that made them quite nervous if they didn't trust my decision making ability. I wonder sometimes if this request for decision making authority is really a request to be trusted. Would be interested in thoughts on that.
  - ibdknox 14y ago
    This is actually something I've considered quite a bit and I've come to realize that I think there's a certain amount of megalomania necessary to be a "primary decision maker". You have to genuinely believe that you can make better decisions than most. In my case, however, the motivator isn't megalomania so much as my need to address problems - I see problems everywhere and in every case in which I've worked for someone, I've largely been forced to just stew in them. To some degree I think I agree with you that what this ultimately comes down to is trust - trust that I can fix this, or that I can make blah happen. I've worked for some great people who did trust me, but unfortunately someone up the chain didn't. To make any real impact I think you have to be willing to take some serious risks and when you're that far away from the problem, it's hard to imagine why those risks are worth taking. In any sufficiently large organization, preaching a disparate vision is bound to hit a wall, because somewhere in there is another guy just like you - someone crazy enough to start a company because they believe in their own vision.
    - rdl 14y ago
      I don't think I'd have a preference in roles in a sufficiently good team.
      - ibdknox 14y ago
        That could very well be the case for me and I just haven't been part of a "sufficiently good team." :)
- rdl 14y ago
  I'd also seriously consider "job in NZ" or "job in Estonia or Czech Republic", although I guess I could just do corp relo there.

justadream 14y ago

Green card.

kami8845 14y ago
Hell, I'd work for free AND learn Java for a green card.

staunch 14y ago

I've often thought that a company could recruit really great people by restricting the work week to three days and paying a proportionately lower salary.

jskulski 14y ago
I would love this.
rdl 14y ago
That would be particularly interesting in segments where either the standard is 60-100h/wk (games), or where 3 day/week people actually would be more useful (certain kinds of consulting or incident response? I don't know)
laluser 14y ago
Like working part-time? What's the difference?
- ksherlock 14y ago
  Some companies have reduced (or no) benefits for part time employees. Less tuition reimbursement (now that you have time to actually use it...), more out of pocket health insurance expenses (now that you're being paid less...). There's also a corporate culture where anyone working part time or remote isn't as committed to the company. Guess who's first in line for layoffs?
ekimekim 14y ago
You'd probably also need more careful contracts when it comes to stuff done outside of work, so it is feasible for someone to do two of these jobs at the same time, or one and a personal project.
darrhiggs 14y ago
I'm happy freelancing ~10hrs a week and earning about the UK's average wage. Three days a week at a company would be perfect.

andymoe 14y ago

1,2 and 4 but "Significantly more money" and competent recruiters mostly. Nothing turns me off to a perspective employer like having to tell their recruter to re-read the email I just sent back to them.

mikeash 14y ago

Where's the "none of the above"? I'd require substantial control over my own destiny and a fairly huge salary/signing bonus to even think about it.

sbashyal 14y ago

I created HN Charts to visualize HN Poll data. Click the following link to visualize the result of this poll in a chart: http://hnlike.com/hncharts/chart/?id=5554681 http://hnlike.com/hncharts/chart/?id=5554681

adamgravitis 14y ago
I'm actually doing pretty OK visualizing these results in my head... :-)

lanstein 14y ago

No 'more equity'?

TheRealDunkirk 14y ago

Where's the "'bout tree-fiddy" option?

adkatrit 14y ago

any company that is willing to pay me full time to work remotely on interesting problems. So I can be with the people I care about at night and not have to relocate.

olalonde 14y ago
Same here. I'd be willing to get half the salary I'd normally get if it meant I could work from anywhere (which I am actually doing right now).

Fzzr 14y ago

You didn't list "Better Work Environment", which would have been my answer.

DigitalSea 14y ago

I am pretty sure the primary motivator for people being poached is money and the second is a great place to work. The economy is going down the toilet globally again and groceries/cost of living isn't going down either.

sgpl 14y ago

I upvoted all four options, and it wasn't really about what would it take to poach me, but more about what would constitute the ideal/perfect mix. Keeping with the above sentiment, I'd add: # smart(er) co-workers # smart & understanding management/bosses. # well designed/planned work environments # skin in the game I'm in my early 20s, and I'm positive that this list might look different for someone in his 30s, 40s or 50s, etc.

cperciva 14y ago

The biggest question for me is "would they do a better job of running Tarsnap than I can do?" I built Tarsnap because I want the world to have good, secure, online backups; it's a profitable corporation simply because that's the most natural form for a backup service to take. Leaving Tarsnap out of the picture -- supposing I was working at a startup instead of being the sole founder of a startup -- hiring me would involve: 1. Having a technical employee (or possibly a formerly-technical employee who has moved into management) approach me. Even the best recruiters have enough cultural mismatch with me that they utterly fail to get my attention. Rough ballpark: If I say "use the address in my whois" and you manage to contact me, you pass that test. 2. Telling what you're doing -- on the ground. I don't care about your elevator pitch, and aside from being satisfied that you can pay your bills, I don't care how profitable the company is going to be -- I'm never going to work somewhere in the hopes of getting a big IPO payout. 3. Telling me what you would want me to work on. Give specific examples of technical problems. I'm never going to move to a different city based on "we're doing lots of exciting things and we're sure you'll enjoy working here". And if you're really serious: 4. Flying me down, renting me a hotel room, and giving me a desk in your offices for a week. Don't pay me, and don't assign me work to do; just tell people that I'm there. By the end of the week, one of two things will have happened: Either I'll have spent most of the week working on my own stuff, and won't be interested in working for you, or I'll have been talking to people and solving problems and writing code and I'll be excited about joining your team.

lifeisstillgood 14y ago
That last one is a kicker. If you don't mind me saying you are in the top 1% though - getting you to work for the company is a win - the rest of us still need to persuade a company they want to hire us. I think I am saying I don't get enough recruiters calling me at all hours to think I can wait for ideal to come along

yesimahuman 14y ago

They couldn't. I'm much happier working for myself. I know that's a non-answer but it was an important realization for me.

lifeisstillgood 14y ago

Can I add some more options to the poll? - remote working plus monthly flights and hotels to meet the crew - collegiate atmosphere and focus on learning and experimentation

NamTaf 14y ago

More money. I enjoy the work I currently do (though it's starting to get a bit samey, a change wouldn't be bad) but I am paid woefully under what my salary should be, because I stem from a government organisation that's now gone privatised. I am strongly considering jumping ship because it's essentially costing me at least $40k/year in opportunity cost to stay in this position. That's no small chunk of money.

bpatrianakos 14y ago

Easy, equal or better pay/benefits and more interesting work. I think people have a sliding scale though. For me, excellent health insurance coverage would be a dealbreaker. I'd stay where I was if another company offered to pay me 50% more without health coverage but totally leave if they offered me 10% less with the same health coverage and more interesting work.

Beltiras 14y ago

For me at the moment: not sure it's possible, but double my salary and I would listen to the pitch. I am currently doing work on a political test that matches candidates to your views and shows you the closest match, both party and congressional candidate. Every party that put forth a list had an invitation extended to send us a list of emails for their top 5 candidates to answer the same questions. So far 45000 people out of an electorate of 220000 have gotten results from the test. 213 candidates out of 280 have responded. I really feel that I have served democracy. I'm not sure any other job could have given as much job satisfaction.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

Jemaclus 14y ago

All of the above, pretty much. Right now I make a six figure salary, and on top of that, I get stock options each month worth a few grand. To successfully poach me, you'd have to convince me of each of the following: A) Your company is a better place to work than mine B) Your problems are more interesting than the ones I'm working on now C) You can pay me my current salary + a raise D) You can pay me enough to give up the remaining stock option grants for the next year (since I assume the new company will have a 1-yr cliff for stock options... also disregarding differences in option amounts). E) That your company will still be in business in at least 1 year, preferably 2. Bonus: if I get a significant amount of stock (not options) in a pre-IPO circumstance where it's likely that I'll get $1MM+ for my share post-IPO or post-acquisition. It's highly unlikely that this will come to pass. However, I may eventually become disenchanted with my current position, resign and then be willing to lower my standards.

jlarocco 14y ago

Assuming I'd get insurance, I'd take a 50% pay cut if I could work 3 days a week or work remote. If I could do 3 day weeks and work remote, I'd probably take a 60-70% pay cut. More money would be nice, but in reality it'd be a temporary thing to save more money while I searched for a part time/remote job.

spydum 14y ago

nothing brings greater happiness than being with people you enjoy hanging out with. even the work can be dull, but if it's with folks you really gel with, you can make it fun/challenging/etc.

lifeisstillgood 14y ago

Has anyone else felt that we are heading to a world populated by Untenured Prfofessors - people who effectively can sustain them selves on less than full time work and still find time for their own research?

Suitov 14y ago

Opportunity for advancement. And money. More than that, I'd be looking for a company that was amazing at staff development, really cared for its staff and stood up for them, and furthermore a company doing something I can believe in; I currently at a place that does public service work and that's not unimportant to me. I know the above is virtually all soft stuff, compared to the money and autonomy-related options in the question, but having worked in places where I felt valued and supported, and in places where I felt ignored and mistrusted, it's important.

idodevops 14y ago

I already have plenty interesting work, where I work on a semi-flexitime arrangement (part time would lead to me getting bored), where I work from home 95% of the time, with the other 5% split between the office and a cafe. So, I had to vote "more money". Other factors that could potentially turn my head: - Work that has meaning/world changing type impact. - a better team (that said, my current one is pretty awesome) - Outstanding benefits of some sort. - Toys/hardware. - Tequila (Bourbon also acceptable).

russelluresti 14y ago

Well, in ridiculous amounts, something like more money would work. Like, you offer me a million a year, I'll do the shittiest development job you have to offer for 5 years and retire. But, assuming all things are equal, I would go with the job that allowed me to work whenever/wherever. Mainly because I'd love to work from home and travel at my leisure. Being able to book a trip overseas for a few months and just work from wherever I'm at is worth more to me than money or the type of work I'd be doing.