5 ms·

> Instead of having that money tied down on a house, people are much better investing in the stock market, which has, over the past 100 years, gone up by 7% ann

by nilkn 14y ago

> Instead of having that money tied down on a house, people are much better investing in the stock market, which has, over the past 100 years, gone up by 7% annually. Just to be clear, that 7% is after inflation. The historical performance of the stock market is closer to 10-11% pre-inflation. > The only time a house makes sense is when raising kids. Retirement is of course another scenario where it makes sense. Mobility won't be nearly as important (indeed it may be totally irrelevant), and you won't have any rent or mortgage payments if you own your house. The thing is that I don't plan to retire in San Francisco or NYC. I plan on retiring in the south or midwest. Housing is so "cheap" there compared to salaries in tech hubs that as long as you're saving a reasonable amount of cash (say $1k minimum) every month (on top of retirement accounts and investments in stocks and bonds), you'll easily be able to just go buy a decent house in a cheap area for cash when you're ready to settle down in retirement. Is it absolutely the most efficient path, financially? I don't know, but it sure does make everything simple, as you'll have maximum mobility during your career. I can't tell you how many people I know who have basically stunted their careers due to buying homes. Money is certainly not the end goal in life, not even close, but lots of people I know could double their earnings if they weren't locked down to one location.

mgkimsal 14y ago
"but lots of people I could double their earnings if they weren't locked down to one location." Likewise, many companies could have lower labor expenses if they'd embrace telecommuting and locate branches (or HQ) in lower cost of living areas.
- nilkn 14y ago
  Indeed, if I could find a very stable, long-term remote development job paying $80k-100k (which is quite a bit lower than the going rates in NYC and SV), I'd seriously consider moving to a small town and just buying a home for $100k. Pay it off completely in a few years and live a really, really comfortable life afterwards. I'm just starting my career, but one of my big goals is to achieve the above either through a traditional remote development role or through independent consulting. The problem is stability--the most stable tech companies don't tend to hire remote devs, and consulting is inherently unstable, although I suppose if you work hard at the top of your game it wouldn't be much of an issue.
  - cmbaus 14y ago
    We are hiring in Tahoe. Housing in nearby areas is far cheaper than the Bay Area. See my profile.
  - mgkimsal 14y ago
    The going rates in NYC/SF also have going rates for living expenses. A single person might not mind having a small apartment or sharing with someone - people with families or other priorities can't live like that. It doesn't have to be telecommute - mid-senior developers can get jobs making $70-$80k in many major areas around the US (Minneapolis, Raleigh, Atlanta, Nashville, are just some I know of off the top of my head). Junior devs with no experience would probably be hard pressed to start off much over $50-60k in those areas, although there may be exceptions. Consulting may be 'unstable' in that you'll have periods where you're not billing - at first that'll be because you have nothing else lined up. Later, it'll be by choice - you'll scheduled out breaks between engagements, and have a bit of a life in between. And you'll have charged enough, and budgeted your earnings enough such that it won't matter to your day to day living. I would suggest that if you do the consulting/contracting route, that you be willing to travel. I know people can't always sell a house and move, but most people can get a car or plane to visit clients on a regular basis - it helps a lot to solidify relationships. And I'm surprised at how many people who want to do independent consulting remotely focus way too much on the remote part and not enough on the independent and consulting parts, then wonder why they can't find clients. Keep your eyes and ears open for opportunities - they sometimes come up in places you wouldn't expect (both geographic and industry).
    - scarecrowbob 14y ago
      I second your post here-- I am currently idled through the end of summer by choice (we're moving and then traveling), but it's not a big deal-- I live in the sticks, but I do drive into Austin, TX pretty frequently. There are indeed a lot of opportunities, but you do have to focus on business development as part of what you're doing; while I don't have a lot of specific offers on my plate for the fall, I'm not worried about finding fun, interesting development projects.
jngreenlee 14y ago
"Just to be clear, that 7% is after inflation. The historical performance of the stock market is closer to 10-11% pre-inflation." Can you link to something backing this claim up? I was thinking the wise/old 7% saying is in nominal, not real, dollars.

by nilkn 14y ago

mgkimsal 14y ago

"but lots of people I could double their earnings if they weren't locked down to one location." Likewise, many companies could have lower labor expenses if they'd embrace telecommuting and locate branches (or HQ) in lower cost of living areas.

nilkn 14y ago
Indeed, if I could find a very stable, long-term remote development job paying $80k-100k (which is quite a bit lower than the going rates in NYC and SV), I'd seriously consider moving to a small town and just buying a home for $100k. Pay it off completely in a few years and live a really, really comfortable life afterwards. I'm just starting my career, but one of my big goals is to achieve the above either through a traditional remote development role or through independent consulting. The problem is stability--the most stable tech companies don't tend to hire remote devs, and consulting is inherently unstable, although I suppose if you work hard at the top of your game it wouldn't be much of an issue.
- cmbaus 14y ago
  We are hiring in Tahoe. Housing in nearby areas is far cheaper than the Bay Area. See my profile.
- mgkimsal 14y ago
  The going rates in NYC/SF also have going rates for living expenses. A single person might not mind having a small apartment or sharing with someone - people with families or other priorities can't live like that. It doesn't have to be telecommute - mid-senior developers can get jobs making $70-$80k in many major areas around the US (Minneapolis, Raleigh, Atlanta, Nashville, are just some I know of off the top of my head). Junior devs with no experience would probably be hard pressed to start off much over $50-60k in those areas, although there may be exceptions. Consulting may be 'unstable' in that you'll have periods where you're not billing - at first that'll be because you have nothing else lined up. Later, it'll be by choice - you'll scheduled out breaks between engagements, and have a bit of a life in between. And you'll have charged enough, and budgeted your earnings enough such that it won't matter to your day to day living. I would suggest that if you do the consulting/contracting route, that you be willing to travel. I know people can't always sell a house and move, but most people can get a car or plane to visit clients on a regular basis - it helps a lot to solidify relationships. And I'm surprised at how many people who want to do independent consulting remotely focus way too much on the remote part and not enough on the independent and consulting parts, then wonder why they can't find clients. Keep your eyes and ears open for opportunities - they sometimes come up in places you wouldn't expect (both geographic and industry).
  - scarecrowbob 14y ago
    I second your post here-- I am currently idled through the end of summer by choice (we're moving and then traveling), but it's not a big deal-- I live in the sticks, but I do drive into Austin, TX pretty frequently. There are indeed a lot of opportunities, but you do have to focus on business development as part of what you're doing; while I don't have a lot of specific offers on my plate for the fall, I'm not worried about finding fun, interesting development projects.

jngreenlee 14y ago

"Just to be clear, that 7% is after inflation. The historical performance of the stock market is closer to 10-11% pre-inflation." Can you link to something backing this claim up? I was thinking the wise/old 7% saying is in nominal, not real, dollars.