5 ms·

Using "white" as a casual negative adjective is weak. I can respect non-whites using it as a term of anger or hatred. We're all big boys. But seeing it used as

by schoper 13y ago

Using "white" as a casual negative adjective is weak. I can respect non-whites using it as a term of anger or hatred. We're all big boys. But seeing it used as a term of self-hatred leaves me feeling more than a little disgusted.

patrickaljord 13y ago
> I can respect non-whites using it as a term of anger or hatred. Did you just say it's respectable to hate on white people?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- schoper 13y ago
  To clear up any misunderstanding: Is it ever acceptable to have feelings of anger and hatred? Yes, surely. There are situations in life that demand that response. Are whites the only acceptable target? Surely not.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    > Is it ever acceptable to have feelings of anger and hatred? Yes, surely. There are situations in life that demand that response. Are whites the only acceptable target? Surely not. Not to accuse you of any impropriety, but that was the most artful dodge I've ever seen outside of a presidential debate. Please answer the question as asked. As far as I'm concerned, anger and hatred on a racial basis is rarely, if ever justified.
    - Crake 13y ago
      " As far as I'm concerned, anger and hatred on a racial basis is rarely, if ever justified." ^---this. If we say it's okay for a certain race, why not the others? It's logically unsound. Far better to not hate anyone on the basis of their skin color. Only way NOT to be a racist, too, for that matter.
calibraxis 13y ago
Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it self-hatred, just as it's reasonable for many males to "hate" the male gender. I have serious issues with the social construct of gender, with its inculcation of aggression/subordination and bizarre attitudes, dress codes, etc. As a male, it's acceptable for me to "hate" maleness, and I think that's better than leaving only females to dismantle patriarchy. (Then again, in the sense that I dislike the odd parts of me which have been bent by race and gender, and actively wish them to disappear, maybe there is something to calling it "self-hate". But it's like the self-hate of a novice, who wishes to transcend their current inability.) So hopefully we might accept that race is a similar, complicated -ism, and it's fine to be a "race traitor" or gender traitor if yours dominates.
- Camillo 13y ago
  Frankly, you sound very similar to those homosexuals with strongly traditional religious beliefs who try to purge themselves of their "twisted" part.
  - Crake 13y ago
    I'm GLBT and I just made a post along similar lines above, ha.
- hacker789 13y ago
  > It's fine to be a "race traitor" or gender traitor if yours dominates. Your use of the word "dominates" is disingenuous. Let's imagine: - - - There exists a country in which 95% of all leadership in government and industry is male. There are a few women here and there, but for the most part, it's all men at the top. And at the top, people are pretty protected. They can generally get away with whatever they want, as is often the case. This country has gender roles. Legally enforced gender roles. Women are viewed as more fragile caregivers. Men are viewed as sturdier providers. People at the top of society are pretty insulated, but for everyone else, these gender roles are a fact of life. For a given crime, men are held to higher standards, and they are subjected to more brutal punishments. Men overwhelmingly find themselves in dangerous, thankless jobs. Young men tend to work menial jobs, while young women tend to attend university. Men do not live as long in this society. An overwhelming amount of public money and attention is spent on issues that primarily affect women. And when a woman is perceived to be slighted, men and women are expected (and socially rewarded) for rushing to her aid. Men, being sturdier, are expected to fend for themselves. - - - Every well-off feminist man I've encountered would say that men in that society are not victims of sexism—they are simply victims of patriarchy. Why on Earth would one call that system "patriarchy"? Aside from the top of society, men have it worse in this society. Men have it much worse. Why lump the men at the top in with the men at the bottom just because they all have penises? Please realize that men can be sexist toward other men. Men can actively oppress other men on the basis of their gender. Men love competing with other men. Men love one-upping other men. Men love protecting women from those other, less civilized men. In short: Many men love oppressing other men. For poorer, underprivileged men, it's incredibly marginalizing to hear a hyper-privileged man display his plumage and say it's alright to hate males, because males "dominate" society. Unfortunately, repeating that mantra costs that hyper-privileged man nothing, yet it can potentially increase his social standing among other hyper-privileged men. So why wouldn't he?
theorique 13y ago
Yeah, agreed, it was not clear why calling out White was useful in the title. "Youth" and "maleness" were relevant. Younger people tend to be more "desperate" and willing to trade time and health to "make it" in their career of choice. They are also less likely to have young children. Males tend to be more passionate about the gaming industry. But what is it about White people that makes them more likely to go into the gaming industry? Nothing, right? So it's not relevant to call it out in the title.
- jiggy2011 13y ago
  FWIW my friends who have worked in the games industry worked with a lot of chinese and indian co-workers.
  - theorique 13y ago
    Also not a surprise ... again, reflecting the demographic of the programming / IT worker.
wonderzombie 13y ago
I wouldn't call it self-hatred. It's point out a glaring reality that's invisible to a lot white people. If they hadn't put that in the headline, it might otherwise have gone unremarked that it's mostly white people. Whiteness can be quite difficult to see if you are yourself white. Put another way, it's not the whiteness itself that's objectionable, at least not exactly. It's the lack of diversity. It just so happens that the lack of diversity presently and historically manifests as a bunch of white dudes. And a great many white dudes just don't notice; for them, that's the "default."
- wonderzombie 13y ago
  Sorry but if you're going to downvote me at least do the courtesy of explaining why. I have been polite and constructive. I thought whether you agreed with a comment or found it to your own liking was supposed to be orthogonal.
KaoruAoiShiho 13y ago
They're not even white. Japanese and Korean games are also very popular.

by schoper 13y ago

patrickaljord 13y ago

> I can respect non-whites using it as a term of anger or hatred. Did you just say it's respectable to hate on white people?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
schoper 13y ago
To clear up any misunderstanding: Is it ever acceptable to have feelings of anger and hatred? Yes, surely. There are situations in life that demand that response. Are whites the only acceptable target? Surely not.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  > Is it ever acceptable to have feelings of anger and hatred? Yes, surely. There are situations in life that demand that response. Are whites the only acceptable target? Surely not. Not to accuse you of any impropriety, but that was the most artful dodge I've ever seen outside of a presidential debate. Please answer the question as asked. As far as I'm concerned, anger and hatred on a racial basis is rarely, if ever justified.
  - Crake 13y ago
    " As far as I'm concerned, anger and hatred on a racial basis is rarely, if ever justified." ^---this. If we say it's okay for a certain race, why not the others? It's logically unsound. Far better to not hate anyone on the basis of their skin color. Only way NOT to be a racist, too, for that matter.

calibraxis 13y ago

Well, I wouldn't necessarily call it self-hatred, just as it's reasonable for many males to "hate" the male gender. I have serious issues with the social construct of gender, with its inculcation of aggression/subordination and bizarre attitudes, dress codes, etc. As a male, it's acceptable for me to "hate" maleness, and I think that's better than leaving only females to dismantle patriarchy. (Then again, in the sense that I dislike the odd parts of me which have been bent by race and gender, and actively wish them to disappear, maybe there is something to calling it "self-hate". But it's like the self-hate of a novice, who wishes to transcend their current inability.) So hopefully we might accept that race is a similar, complicated -ism, and it's fine to be a "race traitor" or gender traitor if yours dominates.

Camillo 13y ago
Frankly, you sound very similar to those homosexuals with strongly traditional religious beliefs who try to purge themselves of their "twisted" part.
- Crake 13y ago
  I'm GLBT and I just made a post along similar lines above, ha.
hacker789 13y ago
> It's fine to be a "race traitor" or gender traitor if yours dominates. Your use of the word "dominates" is disingenuous. Let's imagine: - - - There exists a country in which 95% of all leadership in government and industry is male. There are a few women here and there, but for the most part, it's all men at the top. And at the top, people are pretty protected. They can generally get away with whatever they want, as is often the case. This country has gender roles. Legally enforced gender roles. Women are viewed as more fragile caregivers. Men are viewed as sturdier providers. People at the top of society are pretty insulated, but for everyone else, these gender roles are a fact of life. For a given crime, men are held to higher standards, and they are subjected to more brutal punishments. Men overwhelmingly find themselves in dangerous, thankless jobs. Young men tend to work menial jobs, while young women tend to attend university. Men do not live as long in this society. An overwhelming amount of public money and attention is spent on issues that primarily affect women. And when a woman is perceived to be slighted, men and women are expected (and socially rewarded) for rushing to her aid. Men, being sturdier, are expected to fend for themselves. - - - Every well-off feminist man I've encountered would say that men in that society are not victims of sexism—they are simply victims of patriarchy. Why on Earth would one call that system "patriarchy"? Aside from the top of society, men have it worse in this society. Men have it much worse. Why lump the men at the top in with the men at the bottom just because they all have penises? Please realize that men can be sexist toward other men. Men can actively oppress other men on the basis of their gender. Men love competing with other men. Men love one-upping other men. Men love protecting women from those other, less civilized men. In short: Many men love oppressing other men. For poorer, underprivileged men, it's incredibly marginalizing to hear a hyper-privileged man display his plumage and say it's alright to hate males, because males "dominate" society. Unfortunately, repeating that mantra costs that hyper-privileged man nothing, yet it can potentially increase his social standing among other hyper-privileged men. So why wouldn't he?

theorique 13y ago

Yeah, agreed, it was not clear why calling out White was useful in the title. "Youth" and "maleness" were relevant. Younger people tend to be more "desperate" and willing to trade time and health to "make it" in their career of choice. They are also less likely to have young children. Males tend to be more passionate about the gaming industry. But what is it about White people that makes them more likely to go into the gaming industry? Nothing, right? So it's not relevant to call it out in the title.

jiggy2011 13y ago
FWIW my friends who have worked in the games industry worked with a lot of chinese and indian co-workers.
- theorique 13y ago
  Also not a surprise ... again, reflecting the demographic of the programming / IT worker.

wonderzombie 13y ago

I wouldn't call it self-hatred. It's point out a glaring reality that's invisible to a lot white people. If they hadn't put that in the headline, it might otherwise have gone unremarked that it's mostly white people. Whiteness can be quite difficult to see if you are yourself white. Put another way, it's not the whiteness itself that's objectionable, at least not exactly. It's the lack of diversity. It just so happens that the lack of diversity presently and historically manifests as a bunch of white dudes. And a great many white dudes just don't notice; for them, that's the "default."

wonderzombie 13y ago
Sorry but if you're going to downvote me at least do the courtesy of explaining why. I have been polite and constructive. I thought whether you agreed with a comment or found it to your own liking was supposed to be orthogonal.

KaoruAoiShiho 13y ago

They're not even white. Japanese and Korean games are also very popular.