5 ms·

Starting to Hack on Steel Bank Common Lisp

88 points by avodonosov 14y ago

Derbasti 14y ago
Funny. Chance has it that I am right now working my way through "Practical Common Lisp" and rather enjoying Common Lisps bag of tricks. We'll see if I will dive deep enough to start hacking on the compiler itself. Once I go there, this post will be an awesome resource though.
- muhbaasu 14y ago
  I already read PCL and imho it's a really great book. In case, however, you have further questions (like I did) have a look at #lisp on irc.freenode.org - the guys there are really nice and helpful.
rayiner 14y ago
SBCL is really amazing. Even though it's "bog standard" 1970's and 1980's technology, it still puts up a great showing against state of the art compilers: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/lisp.php http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/lisp.php. It's also a great example of the power of macros. If you look at the backend, things like define-vop and the like, it does a lot of things using macros that e.g. LLVM uses an external code generation tool (tblgen) to accomplish.
- mmp 14y ago
  No offense, but I'm not sure that the Language Shootout is the best showcase, the SBCL code submitted there could hardly be called idiomatic Common Lisp. Mandelbrot is one of the most egrerious offenders in that regard [1], compare that with the Java submission [2] which is both cleaner and faster... [1]http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/program.php?test=mandelbrot&lang=sbcl&id=1 http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/program.php?test... [2]http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/program.php?test=nbody&lang=java&id=2 http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/program.php?test...
  - emiljbs 14y ago
    When the text of a post is greyed out, has it then received a bunch of downvotes? // From a HN newbie who's already wondered this
    - adbge 14y ago
      It has received more downvotes than upvotes.
    - ww520 14y ago
      Java is not exactly popular here, especially when compared to Lisp. It has an affinity for downvotes.
    - jamesaguilar 14y ago
      Yes. To be specific, if the net votes are -4, a post is maximally downvoted.
  - jules 14y ago
    You probably meant to link to this Java code: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=mandelbrot&lang=java http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?te...
  - derleth 14y ago
    > the SBCL code submitted there could hardly be called idiomatic Common Lisp That's the point of Common Lisp: It gives you enough rope. Some people use it to hang themselves, others use it to selectively optimize the parts that need it, still others use it to optimize the whole thing.
    - nnq 14y ago
      All languages have "layers/levels" at which one uses them. Isn't the whole point of a language shootout to compare "default levels", that is levels at which the "average programs" are written, and not the kilometers of rope stored in the levels below? (or is it really true that there isn't a "default level" for CL?)

88 points by avodonosov 14y ago

Funny. Chance has it that I am right now working my way through "Practical Common Lisp" and rather enjoying Common Lisps bag of tricks. We'll see if I will dive deep enough to start hacking on the compiler itself. Once I go there, this post will be an awesome resource though.

muhbaasu 14y ago
I already read PCL and imho it's a really great book. In case, however, you have further questions (like I did) have a look at #lisp on irc.freenode.org - the guys there are really nice and helpful.

rayiner 14y ago

SBCL is really amazing. Even though it's "bog standard" 1970's and 1980's technology, it still puts up a great showing against state of the art compilers: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/lisp.php http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/lisp.php. It's also a great example of the power of macros. If you look at the backend, things like define-vop and the like, it does a lot of things using macros that e.g. LLVM uses an external code generation tool (tblgen) to accomplish.

mmp 14y ago
No offense, but I'm not sure that the Language Shootout is the best showcase, the SBCL code submitted there could hardly be called idiomatic Common Lisp. Mandelbrot is one of the most egrerious offenders in that regard [1], compare that with the Java submission [2] which is both cleaner and faster... [1]http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/program.php?test=mandelbrot&lang=sbcl&id=1 http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/program.php?test... [2]http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/program.php?test=nbody&lang=java&id=2 http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/program.php?test...
- emiljbs 14y ago
  When the text of a post is greyed out, has it then received a bunch of downvotes? // From a HN newbie who's already wondered this
  - adbge 14y ago
    It has received more downvotes than upvotes.
  - ww520 14y ago
    Java is not exactly popular here, especially when compared to Lisp. It has an affinity for downvotes.
  - jamesaguilar 14y ago
    Yes. To be specific, if the net votes are -4, a post is maximally downvoted.
- jules 14y ago
  You probably meant to link to this Java code: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?test=mandelbrot&lang=java http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?te...
- derleth 14y ago
  > the SBCL code submitted there could hardly be called idiomatic Common Lisp That's the point of Common Lisp: It gives you enough rope. Some people use it to hang themselves, others use it to selectively optimize the parts that need it, still others use it to optimize the whole thing.
  - nnq 14y ago
    All languages have "layers/levels" at which one uses them. Isn't the whole point of a language shootout to compare "default levels", that is levels at which the "average programs" are written, and not the kilometers of rope stored in the levels below? (or is it really true that there isn't a "default level" for CL?)