5 ms·

"This is going nowhere. You're stuck at making the current submodule system work, not answering my questions, diverting conversation, repeatedly asking the sam

by niggler 14y ago

"This is going nowhere. You're stuck at making the current submodule system work, not answering my questions, diverting conversation, repeatedly asking the same stupid questions, labelling everything that I say "subjective", and refusing to look at the objective counterpart (aka, the code). It's clear to me that no matter how many more emails I write, you're not going to concede. I'm not interested in wasting any more of my time with this nonsense. I give up." http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/220514/ http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/22051...

Tobu 14y ago
Hah, I thought you quoted a maintainer, but this is from the original submitter. Cheeky.
- tinco 14y ago
  It's not cheeky, it's desparate. He proposes an honest and well thought through idea that he spent a lot of time on, and someone he looks up to just behaves like a complete ass. Junio et al. do nothing but thinking against him, instead of with him. They'd do better just not responding at all.
  - drtse4 14y ago
    If he can't defend his idea among project maintainers it's not worth implementing imho. While the first implementation could have been made in a rush, if this needs to be fixed let's give it some thought this time. While they were clearly not supportive, also clearly this guy is not the right one for this job.
  - jedbrown 14y ago
    I followed the discussion and read it exactly opposite. Ram was putting the cart in front of the horse ("I really need you to start reviewing the code now." see replies [1,2]) and everyone else involved in the discussion wanted to understand the benefits first. Junio was never dismissive of the idea, he just requested a coherent argument of the benefits so that real issues could be discussed. It is understood that submodules are not a smooth workflow in many cases, but Ram's proposed change would be very disruptive and most stated "benefits" of his design are red herrings. [1] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/220275 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/22... [2] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/220299 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/22...
    - kelnos 14y ago
      I agree with you on the tone of the conversation, but from my -- admittedly biased -- view, submodules are an abomination, and any serious proposal to come up with an alternative should be welcomed with open arms. Ramkumar may have taken the questions directed at him the wrong way, but IMO the questioner shares equal fault for that. Know (or learn) your audience, and tailor your responses so you you achieve a good outcome. "I'm super frustrated and feel like I've wasted my time so I give up" is not a good outcome, for any of the parties concerned.
artagnon 14y ago
To clarify: "I give up" was referring to giving up on the argument in that subthread, not on the idea in general. It requires a lot of hard work and perseverance to get something this disruptive merged; I'm merely taking a break to do more groundwork before coming back with a v2 of the approach. I have utmost respect for Junio, Linus and the others, but realize that they have some negative attributes like all human beings do. Junio can be especially defensive when it comes to something new, although it's not completely without reason. After all, we do have an ultra-stable and well-maintained piece of software because of him.

by niggler 14y ago

Tobu 14y ago

Hah, I thought you quoted a maintainer, but this is from the original submitter. Cheeky.

tinco 14y ago
It's not cheeky, it's desparate. He proposes an honest and well thought through idea that he spent a lot of time on, and someone he looks up to just behaves like a complete ass. Junio et al. do nothing but thinking against him, instead of with him. They'd do better just not responding at all.
- drtse4 14y ago
  If he can't defend his idea among project maintainers it's not worth implementing imho. While the first implementation could have been made in a rush, if this needs to be fixed let's give it some thought this time. While they were clearly not supportive, also clearly this guy is not the right one for this job.
- jedbrown 14y ago
  I followed the discussion and read it exactly opposite. Ram was putting the cart in front of the horse ("I really need you to start reviewing the code now." see replies [1,2]) and everyone else involved in the discussion wanted to understand the benefits first. Junio was never dismissive of the idea, he just requested a coherent argument of the benefits so that real issues could be discussed. It is understood that submodules are not a smooth workflow in many cases, but Ram's proposed change would be very disruptive and most stated "benefits" of his design are red herrings. [1] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/220275 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/22... [2] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/220299 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/22...
  - kelnos 14y ago
    I agree with you on the tone of the conversation, but from my -- admittedly biased -- view, submodules are an abomination, and any serious proposal to come up with an alternative should be welcomed with open arms. Ramkumar may have taken the questions directed at him the wrong way, but IMO the questioner shares equal fault for that. Know (or learn) your audience, and tailor your responses so you you achieve a good outcome. "I'm super frustrated and feel like I've wasted my time so I give up" is not a good outcome, for any of the parties concerned.

artagnon 14y ago

To clarify: "I give up" was referring to giving up on the argument in that subthread, not on the idea in general. It requires a lot of hard work and perseverance to get something this disruptive merged; I'm merely taking a break to do more groundwork before coming back with a v2 of the approach. I have utmost respect for Junio, Linus and the others, but realize that they have some negative attributes like all human beings do. Junio can be especially defensive when it comes to something new, although it's not completely without reason. After all, we do have an ultra-stable and well-maintained piece of software because of him.